Extra (hidden) guests

[Denise1145]

I have a guest who snuck in two extra guests (including a young child - our property listing states it is unsuitable for under 12yo). Our property is suitable for two guests only. There is just one double bed.  When she left we challenged her on this, (we live on the same property) and she apologised and said to invoice her for the extra guests. We did this. The next day she messaged saying she felt it was very unfair that we charged her extra as a) she treated our property respectfully and b) she had given us Instagram exposure (un-asked for). And was also upset as she normally gets accommodation for free in exchange for her Instagram posts. She never asked for free accommodation, and we never talked about or agreed to any deal around this.

The time has now expired for her to pay her extra guest charges. It feels like we've wasted enough time and energy on this already. Do we pursue the extra guest charge through Airbnb? It's not a huge amount of money. Do we just write her a bad review?

Grateful for your thoughts.

[Denise1145]

Thanks @Sarah977 yes you are quite right.  All the friends hanging out used up quite a lot of our consumables, not to mention more cleaning and general wear and tear than we normally get with two guests. 

That is great advice re no visitor rule.

She (and her friends) had all done Instagram 'stories' which disappear after 24 hours (although she did say she had a couple of 'posts' planned, which she probably won't do now!).

Thanks again to everyone for their time answering this!

[Cormac0]

@Denise1145 

These parasitic guest make me sick...

There a well known youtuber that was called out by a Dublin (Eire) boutique hotelier when she attempted to extort free accommodation for herself and her boy friend, with good or bad review based on his compliance to her demands, he called her out and basically told her to get stuffed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/19/hotel-owner-hits-youtube-vloggers-flooded-business-bad-r...

[Denise1145]

We have started drafting our review for our guest.  Do you think the following is fair and explains the problems succinctly? (One of her problems with paying was that she is apparently not usually charged for her young daughter).  Our house rules state not suitable for under 12yos.

"Axxx left our place clean and tidy.  However Axxx broke our house rules by bringing in extra unregistered guests (including a child) in excess of our property’s listed capacity.  At check-out we talked to her about this, and she agreed to pay for the extra guests. Later Axxx sent a message to say she did not feel it was fair to be charged extra, as her un-asked for Instagram exposure should be payment enough. The extra guests were never paid for."

[Sally221]

A succinct review of the facts, if she leaves a bad review in retaliation (highly likely) I'd know, as a guest, to overlook it. If she wanted to book with me, I'd know to turn her down.

[Denise1145]

Thanks @Sally221   We are trying to leave her review to the last possible moment, without missing the opportunity to review her, as I'm sure she will have something negative to say in return.  How long do we have to reply to her review?  I've checked on our past reviews, and the more recent ones still have the option to leave a public reply (even those more than two weeks since stay) but older ones do not have that option anymore.

[Christopher-and-Elisa0]

@Denise1145  She can’t leave a bad review in retaliation to yours. She won’t see your review until she has completed hers. But judging from your description her review might not be great anyway so you don’t need to worry about the timing of your review.
she can respond to your review (and you to hers). Again, from what you told us I wouldn’t expect a gracious response. Your review is to the point and explains calmly the problem with the guest so I’d say the only business she’ll hurt will be her own.

[Sarah977]

@Christopher-and-Elisa0  The strategy Denise is talking about refers to a guest who you are pretty sure will leave you a bad review but hasn't left a review yet. By waiting until just before the cut-off time, that may mean that the guest, who hasn't bothered to leave a review, won't see that you've left a review in time to leave one themselves. 

If the guest has already submitted a review,  then there's no point in waiting.

[Denise1145]

Yes that was our plan, but she must have had a review ready waiting, as her review came pretty swiftly after ours.

What was helpful with us waiting nearly the full two weeks, was that we have six other super positive reviews from guests since her, so they are posted above hers (in booking order) so when you look at our listing, those positive listings are what you see, unless you specifically scroll through more reviews.

When we book for ourselves, we would just ignore the one bad review, if there are mostly positive ones.

[Helen350]

@Christopher-and-Elisa0 I had a look at Denise's listing & the silly cow guest has done her nasty, ungracious review! - Spoiled her holiday! Her FREE for most of her party holiday! What a nerve! - Who'll host her now?? 😝

[Sally221]

My understanding is that one has 2 weeks to leave a review, if this has changed I didn't know. Bad guests are known for bad reviews, alas, are you getting prompts from air bnb about her review? Is that no longer happening? 

[Denise1145]

Hi @Sally221 yes we were still getting prompts to review her so she had not yet done her review. 

We wanted to do it at the last minute but weren't sure when exactly that would be, with Airbnb being an American site, and us being in NZ. Thought the time difference may catch us out. Anyhow, looks like she had something ready to go, as her review cam pretty swiftly after we had left hers.

[Cave0]

I may be somewhat unconventional and maybe unpopular here, however I have had the extra guest situation on several occasions.

Whilst I pride myself on the accommodation and service I provide, I won't be held to ransom by the "threat" explicit or otherwise of receiving a bad review and the guests that I wish to have stay I would hope take a balanced view if there's a negative review amongst the many positive ones, particularly if it results from the extra guest scenario.  To be quite frank, if anyone were put off by an extra guest revenge review then quite honestly I would prefer it if they didn't book with me.

However, regardless of the review, the extra guest situation has several aspects to it as far as I am concerned.  Firstly, it is in breach of the Airbnb terms of service.  Secondly it is in breach of my house rules. Thirdly, there is a risk that your liability insurance may be invalidated if people are there without a valid reservation. Fourthly you may be liable to local action by the police if local laws exist regarding people staying with no valid reservation and finally, perhaps most importantly, these people are stealing from you.

However it is dressed up or "explained", there's no excuse.  The rules are quite clear and if there's no intent to trick or deceive the host, the guest is perfectly able to tell the host at check in or send a message through Airbnb.  

In my case having people in my accommodation where there is no valid reservation exposes me to action from the local police.  In addition to the risk of losing my licence as a result and this would have a negative impact upon future bookings and I don't see why someone else's holiday should be put at risk by some people who are just intent on trying to steal from me and get away without paying.

I can only speak for myself but I am wholly intolerant of this type of behaviour and therefore I immediately call Airbnb and get Airbnb to cancel the reservation, which Airbnb will do because the terms of service have been broken.  Following this I assist the guest with an early check out and that is that.

I understand some hosts would prefer to handle this in other ways but I am not prepared to have my livelihood and the holidays of future guests put at risk because somebody thinks it is ok to steal from me and break the law.

[Sarah977]

@Cave0  Yes, I agree. There are far too many hosts who tiptoe around guests' bad or scammy behavior in fear of a bad review. And it gives guests the idea that they can go on to ignore house rules or guest counts at the next place they book.  

[Anonymous]

@Cave0  I agree , and the majority of hosts I've been in contact with (whether online or in person) share your opinion. Sadly, the fear of confrontation or bad reviews often prevents hosts from taking action to enforce their own rules and boundaries. It's undeniably unpleasant and stressful to terminate a booking early, but for all the reasons you mentioned it's still the better course of action on the balance of things.

[Cave0]

@Anonymous There's no denying that having to assist with an early check-out is stressful and unpleasant, it's not something I derive any pleasure from. 

However, I think it is sometimes easy to consider just going along with the situation and avoiding confrontation. 

Unfortunately, if one of these "extra" guests has an accident, I am sure they won't be shy of attempting to sue the host if they think there's compensation to be had.  They won't consider that they ought not have been at the accommodation and I am pretty sure Airbnb's insurance will only cover those guest who have a genuine reservation. 

This leaves the host in a very precarious position, certainly I have liability insurance of my own, but again, this only covers guests with a reservation. 

So, it might seem to be the easier option just to let things slide, but rest assured, if something goes wrong and someone tries to sue, the poor host will be the last person anyone feels sorry for when they want their compensation.............