From Dr. Fauci: Wiping down objects a “very, very minor, minor aspect”

[Pat271]

Many of us have known about this for months after reading about it on the CDC website, but here it is, straight from the horse’s mouth (Dr. Tony Fauci):

"We also know that the virus can live on inanimate objects," he continued, explaining that according to the transmissibility and the epidemiology, "that is very likely a very, very minor, minor aspect" of transmissibility. "We can't say it's zero. It certainly is real and is finite, but it's minor." 

Therefore, when it comes to preventative measures, he doesn't emphasize wiping down items. "I think we should spend less time worrying about wiping down a grocery bag than we should about just washing our hands frequently," he said. 

Three “very”s and two “minor”s.

The entire statement can be found here:

https://apple.news/ANhBHCEc_Sfyo69XTm8GUaw

In light of the above, do you think Airbnb should revise it’s cleaning protocols to account for current scientific knowledge about how the virus is transmitted?

[Melodie-And-John0]

@John5097 , The stuff we are using to clean and sanitize is made for hospitals and butcher houses not our homes.  Remote controls, light switches, outlets and finished surfaces in most of the residential world are not protected and dont like repeated applications of stuff that is more like moonshine or acetone paint thinner than we are led to believe.    Like I said before, once we conquer the Covid, we will have to de-covidize our spaces from top to bottom, lots of fresh paint, new shades, oil soap, contact cleaner/ preservative and probably a couple universal remotes.

I like Dr Fauchi also but Im done trusting what he says, he's swings his opinion much like a runway sock, based on the way the wind blows not the science.  Thats sad to say because at one time he was one of the worlds most respected Immunologists, now hes just an overpriced political football for whoever is the QB, time for him to step from behind the podium and return to the Mass Spec, NMR and Glove Box that he served us best from or retire.  Stay well, JR

[John5097]

@Melodie-And-John0 Yeah I agree. What I really liked about the In Cide disinfectant I posted a link to is how mild it is. Almost like water, and seems less chemical like than most soaps. Even on polished stainless steel it doesn't leave a residue. But I also don't have a much confidence in public policy, and just trying to do my part so that other more vulnerable members of society don't get infected. At one point last April an op ed by someone with a degree in biology wrote that the covid would survive in the ocean and wash up on the beaches so we should keep those closed. I don't have a degree in chemistry and understand that bacteria can survive and pollute waterways so took a long time to even open up public beaches and parks, as most people think one sneeze at the beach and everyone for miles around will catch it. Not even sure how our immune systems will react to too much cleaning. I never even get a cold and first time I've been a hyper vigilant hand washer. I'd defiantly like more science and less political footballers. Cheers and always enjoy reading your post. 

[Sarah977]

@John5097 Same here, I haven't had a cold or the flu in 25 years, even if I'm around those who do. I am lucky to have a good immune system.

But this virus is something I really don't want to tempt fate on, as there seem to be long term health effects, even if you have a mild case, that are largely unknown at this point.

I like to live with as natural products as I can. I never use hand sanitizer at home, as I can just wash my hands with soap and water. I basically try to use common sense concerning all this stuff. I have a pretty clear understanding of how the virus is transferred and work from there.

I do wonder what other ill effects will be discovered in times to come by spraying everything down with Lysol.

[Helen427]

"Seeing through a Cloud of Cigarette Smoke" written by Alan BLUM & Eric SOLBERG provides an insight that is worthwhile reading in relation to the wider Tobacco industry.

Timelines of the chain of events are very important when one looks back on history and when Smokefree Legislation was introduced in the late 1990's and subsequent introduction of Cessation alternatives  like E-cigarettes/ Vapes and who has been manufacturing them ,  those calling the shots in the Academic field who are paid by the  industry and all those who have been effected.

https://cancerletter.com/articles/20200918_2/

@Pat271 @John5097 @Melodie-And-John0 @Cathie19 

[Helen427]

How many of you know that Professor Robert West, SAGE, UK, whose Research Papers have been relied on, & Reverend Robert West BNP activist and who was struck off from teaching Religious Studies because of his hatred towards Religious groups is one and the same person?

Oh and he also has a long history of saying ALL women should stay at home and children should be educated from home?

Many women have lost their jobs and income and school children have also been adversely impacted on throughout this whole unfortunate situation.

The facts are out there right out of the horse's mouth , including his heinous videos of hatred.

There is absolutely NO place in Society for any type of Discrimination or hatred of anyone

What does Mr Fauci know about that?
What is MR FAUCI doing about that?
USA is following UK Behavioural Scientists belonging to SAGE after all

Do our Universities and Governments not do background checks of these Political/ Science Advisors & people who are giving 'Advice' to them and whose works have been relied on?

@Catherine-Powell @Brian

@Lizzie @Quincy @Liv @Stephanie @Nick @Sergi @Francesa0 @Anna @Katie and other ABB Admins this is something you also all need to be mindful of lurking in the background.

We must all move positively forward as a world-wide Community

[John5097]

@Pat271 

I intended to add more information about the threat of bacteria. I watch a lot of docs about this kind of stuff. There have been several good ones within the past five years on both the risk of global pandemic, that predicted exactly how this would originate and play out, and the increasing risk antibiotic resistant bacteria, that has yet to play out. 

I also had a recent guest who was an infectious disease nurse. I can't remember all the different antibiotic resistant bacteria, let alone spell them, but its really concerning, as the pandemic has demonstrated how limited we are at managing these natural mutations, where one animal can infect the entire world population. 

I plan to keep spraying down surfaces after final clean up. This article does say that overuse of handsanitzers and cleaning agents can lead to microbial mutations that make them more resistant, but also says to make sure to be very thorough when cleaning. 

 I personally think its nature sorting things out and as a society aren't even discussing the core issues. You never hear about the fact that about 80% of antibiotics are used on livestock on animals crammed into warehouses and feed lots, although this has been a well known concern since before the 70s. Its different than a virus that originated from the wild, as in covid, but still originated in a collective practice of humans keeping animals in unnatural and extremely filthy conditions, so I think its just going to play out according to the laws of nature. 

I think as long as a host is up front about their cleaning protocal in their listing that's fine. I plan to keep using disinfectant after very through cleaning. If you don't then be clear, "We do not use or believe in the use of disinfectants and do not use them with our cleaning protocal as they may damage surfaces." (or whatever reason not to use them.) 

At any rate here is an article that says overuse of handsanitizers and cleaning agents can promote mutations if not used correctly. I didn't know this until I just googled trying to find some of the really scary bacteria, and can hardly spell disease, so not pretending to be an expert. Maybe the bright lining that people are starting to do healthier lifestyle. 

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-heavy-sanitizer-boosts-antimicrobial-resistance.html

 

[Sarah977]

@John5097  That information about the overuse of anti-bacterials has been around for a long time. It's been linked to a large increase in the incidence of asthma and allergies in children, as well. 

I have read articles, long before COVID, saying that the only place that antibacterial soap, etc, needs to be used is in a hospital or large communal setting, certainly not in your home.

I have never used "antibacterial" soap in my home. What a lot of people seem unaware of is that normal soap is antibacterial- that's the whole point of soap. Nor do I use hand sanitizer aside from when I have to be out in public.

Of course, cleaning a rental during a pandemic complicates matters and its better to be on the safe side than not.

[Pat271]

A very good article published by The NY Times about what we should/shouldn’t be concentrating on with regards to, among other things, disinfecting for Covid:

Covid testing as exercise

In a public health emergency, absolutism is a very tempting response: People should cease all behavior that creates additional risk.

That instinct led to calls for gay men to stop having sex during the AIDS crisis. It has also spurred campaigns for teen abstinence, to reduce sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancies. And to fight obesity, people have been drawn to fads like the elimination of trans fats or carbohydrates.

These days, there is a new absolutist health fad: the discouragement — or even prohibition — of any behavior that seems to increase the risk of coronavirus infection, even minutely.

People continue to scream at joggers, walkers and cyclists who are not wearing masks. The University of California, Berkeley, this week banned outdoor exercise, masked or not, saying, “The risk is real.” The University of Massachusetts Amherst has banned outdoor walks. It encouraged students to get exercise by “accessing food and participating in twice-weekly Covid testing.”

A related trend is “hygiene theater,” as Derek Thompson of The Atlantic described it: The New York City subway system closes every night, for example, so that workers can perform a deep cleaning.

There are two big questions to ask about these actions: How much are they doing to reduce the spread of the virus? And do they have any downside?

No documented cases

The answer to the first question, according to many experts, is: They seem to do little good. Prohibiting outdoor activity is unlikely to reduce the spread of the virus, nor is urging people always to wear a mask outdoors.

Worldwide, scientists have not documented any instances of outdoor transmission unless people were in close conversation, Dr. Muge Cevik, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, told me. “The small number of cases where outdoor transmission might have occurred,” she wrote on Twitter, “were associated with close interactions, particularly extended duration, or settings where people mixed indoors alongside an outdoor setting.” The new variants of the virus are more contagious, but there is no evidence to suggest they will change this pattern.

As my colleague Tara Parker-Pope puts it, “Avoid breathing the air that other people exhale.”

A student walking across campus — let alone a masked student — presents little risk to another student who remains at least six feet away. The same goes for joggers in your neighborhood.

The story is similar for deep cleaning. “Scientists increasingly say that there is little to no evidence that contaminated surfaces can spread the virus,” my colleagues Mike Ives and Apoorva Mandavilli have written. The one surface that is important to wash, frequently and vigorously, is the human hand.

Which brings us to the second question — whether there is any downside to absolutism. Covid-19 is a horrible disease. And the notion that a jogger somewhere might infect somebody she passes, even from more than six feet away, is scientifically plausible.

So why not take every possible precaution at all times?

A gym in Los Angeles, where up to 10 people at a time can exercise outdoors while wearing masks.Kendrick Brinson for The New York Times

Unintended consequences

The short answer is: because we are human.

Taking every possible precaution is unrealistic, just as telling all gay men and teenagers to abstain from sex was unrealistic. Human beings are social creatures who crave connection and pleasure and who cannot minimize danger at all times.

Despite the risks, we eat carbs, drink wine, go sledding and even ride in automobiles. We enjoy taking outdoor walks and drinking a cup of coffee on a public bench. Many people who exercise find it difficult to do so in a mask. “It feels a bit like suffocating,” Shannon Palus wrote in Slate.

I’ve noticed that some of the clearest voices against Covid absolutism are researchers who have spent much of their careers studying HIV, including Cevik, Julia Marcus, Sarit Golub and Aaron Richterman. They know the history. The demonization of sex during the AIDS crisis contributed to more unsafe sex. If all sex is bad, why focus on safe sex?

There is a similar dynamic with Covid. “People do not have unlimited energy, so we should ask them to be vigilant where it matters most,” Cevik has written.

Telling Americans to wear masks when they’re unnecessary undermines efforts to persuade more people to wear masks where they are vital. Remember: Americans are not doing a particularly good job of wearing masks when they make a big difference, indoors and when people are close together outdoors.

Banning college students from outdoor walks won’t make them stay inside their dorm rooms for weeks on end. But it probably will increase the chances that they surreptitiously gather indoors.

And spending money on deep cleaning leaves less money for safety measures that will protect people, like faster vaccination.

“Rules that are really more about showing that you’re doing something versus doing something that’s actually effective” are counterproductive, Marcus told my colleague Ian Prasad Philbrick. “Trust is the currency of public health.”

[Jeanne182]

Do we really need to wash every dish, glass, pot, pan baking dish between guests?