AirBnB "Specialist" demanding we pay for damages we didn't cause!

[Ryan520]

Hi, 

We recently stayed at a beautiful villa. While there, there was an accident and a plant pot around the pool (super heavy one) was knocked over and went into the pool. This caused the plant pot to crack, and soil to come out and float all round the pool. We all felt awful and spent the penultimate day of the holiday trying to clean the pool, and scrubbing the entire villa clean. However despite various nets etc. we tried using, we couldn't get the soil out because it was too small and went through the nets; it was like dust. 

While also there, the host had left bleach on the ground by the poolside. This cause multiple of the towels (provided), bedding (provided) and the girls bikinis to become bleached when they feel off the railing onto the bleach (we didnt know it was bleach until things landed it in, and became ruined). 

We left the villa at 8am, and new guests moved in at 12 noon that day. Upon checkout we immediately notified the host's keyholder about the pool and damages. The following day, the host requested we paid 686€. (500€ cracked tile, 50€ IKEA towel + bedding, 50€ clean the pool + pool water lost, 84€ plant pot). As stated by the hosts the costs were all "estimates" and "it may be lower". 

This was the first we had seen of the damaged and cracked tile. With 8 of us looking for damage, and spending the entire penultimate day scrubbing the poolside, walls (dirty, not by us, but we wanted to make things look nicer as a sorry), cleaning villa etc. I think someone would have very clearly and easily seen this crack. I think the more likely story, is that it was caused when they tried to replace the plant pot (it was heavy and took 3 of us to lift it out the pool) 

Not only did we feel like that kind of damage should be covered by insurance anyway, but we'd already paid a £237.49 cleaning fee upfront, so didnt see why we should pay a further 50€ cleaning fee for the pool. The bedding + towels (of which its the hosts fault is damaged in our eyes - along with our swimwear) cost £4.84 from IKEA -> not 50€. The 500€ was an "estimate". We of course decline this payment with a very polite message to the host. 

The host immediately responded the following day stating her husband received an email about the damaged tile, stating "it will probably cost around 250€ as opposed to 500€". It literally halved the minute we refused to pay without receipts. 

56 days after the booking ended, the host opened the resolution centre and we got an email from a specialist called Melania. She stated she would gather information from both parties and make a decision on the case. She stated shed gather information from the host first and get back to us. 

In the meantime, we did some research about security deposits, and discovered via the support centre that the reservation had no security deposit. 

Anyway, yesterday (while still waiting to be contacted for our side of the story), we received an email back from the specialist. The email stated, in summary;

"Hi, 

You will have to pay X,Y,Z = 484€. Until you pay, your airBnB account has been deactivated. 

Regards,

Melania"

We were all a bit shocked. We were still waiting for the specialist to get in contact. I should also mention here that we were impatient and tried calling the support centre multiple times over the few weeks before receiving this email trying to get ahold of Melania. Support were useless and said they could not pass us through to the speciliast and that we would have to wait for a call!

So, that leads us to today. We have been demanded to pay 484€ on damages we do not think are fair, and the account the booking was made from has been deactivated until we pay the sum. 

So, I would like to know: 

1) Where do I go from here? We can't dispute if the account is deactivated? 

2) Can we be forced to pay for these damages? There is no security deposit, and the host is trying to rip us off. the £4.84 link for towel on the 50€ charge and extra cleaning fee + pool water fee of 50€ is proof enough of that

Thanks for all your help, 

Ryan 

[Ana1136]

@Ryan520 how did a plant pot so heavy that needs 3 people to lift it end up in the pool? In regards to the cleaning fee they charged extra because they needed extra time and maybe another cleaner to clean the pool specifically which I am sure you know costs extra. Was there bleach just spilled on the floor during your whole stay, because it would have evaporated wery fast if it was in the open. I believe it is fair to pay, I am not sure about the ammount but just so you know, Airbnb always sides with the guest and if they say you need to pay, than for sure the money required is the right ammount because they base their calculations on reciepts and not guesses.

[Ryan520]

The plant pot was heavy - too heavy for one person to lift. However in the plant pot was a tree (I dont know what tree, but a tree). Someone slipped on the poolside (which while wet, was slippy) and fell onto the tree. Because of the leverage the tree had, it tipped the pot up. 

My parents own a cleaning business; no cleaner charges £237.49 with another 50€ on top. Thats extortionate for cleaning fees; theyre normally £50 (worst case).  The pool wasn't horrific - they had a pool vacuum in the basement, and had it sparkling and ready for the next guests within a couple of hours.

Despite having spare tiles in the basement, they said it would have to go to a contractor and that the contractor is on holiday. The price is not from a receipt; the hand written invoice says the plant pot cost exactly 64€ (then she charged 2 hours work on top to make it 84€). However, the "Specialist" charged the plant pot at 57.60€. So I assume they now have the receipt for the plant pot - more evidence they tried to overcharge us. 

Airbnb didnt even ask our side of the story as they are supposed to; that is not siding with the guest. 

[Louise231]

@Ryan520

So i just want to clear a few things up on the charges for you.

The cleaning fee you see on listing's generally isn't the cost of actually cleaning a home/room.

It's used for whole home listing's, especially where hosts live far away like this, as a payment to the person managing the listing.

The person who is responding to 24hr enquiries, bookings, handing over/collecting keys, cleaning (or paying other cleaners) and arranging for repairs/replacments. And yes the organisation of these things takes time, and they should be paid for it, not just cleaning

The same way an estate agent takes 9% of your rent before it goes to a landlord, every single month.

So please don't take the cleaning fee as how much it costs to change the sheets and hover/scrub, its way more than that. And they get paid per booking so a short booking pays the same as a large booking, hence why it looks high for a short stay.

To compensate the daily rate (which the distant host keeps) is often smaller (which you wouldn't really notice)

Adding an extra cleaning fee would be to sort the pool, and that wouldn't be covered in any normal cleaning fee.

As for the change in pot price, airbnb on your behalf, would have adjusted the price of the pot by how old it was, so if they bought it a year ago, and have a reciept for a new one, airbnb will take off a % for the years worth the host has already used. Depreciation basically. (in this case it looks like they took off 10% so its probs 1year old, or close, and airbnb figures that it should last 10 years for with normal use, so they discounted the receipt for you)

So the host wouldn't be trying to rip you off, it's just airbnb in their arbitration process, adjusting the price.

[Silvia-and-Matt0]

A cleaning fee is not just for regular cleaning. Cleaning an airbnb is not the same as cleaning someones house on regular bases. I owned a cleaning company for several years and the extend of deep cleaning doesn't even come close to what we do at the BnB. Let me just put this in perspective: before every guest arrives bed linnens have to be changed and washed and the same goes for blankets, then you have to make sure that everything including windows, doors, light switches, appliances, pools are all clean inside and out (typically a pool is additional cleaning fee), then you have to make sure that the yard is cut and leaves are raked and plants are watered.. oh yeah, have to stock up on shampoo, soap, toilet paper, conditioner. We have to make sure all plates and silverware are clean and account for inventory. Then if there is damage, we have to spend time to drive to number of stores, make calls and appointments for estimates and repairs and then follow through. The amount of work that goes into it is threefold  or more then simply cleaning bathrooms, dusting and moping as a weekly cleaning company would do. Quite frankly, the host should have charged you more for the pot and the trouble they had to go through to clean, drive to replace first the pot, then the plant... not to speak that they had to explain to the next guest that the pool is unusabe until cleaned and possibly even give them a partial refund for the inconvenience. I would have gotten a contractor t give me a higher quote, just to make my time worth it. I mean, think about it and put yourself in their shoes. What is a day of your time worth because this is a two day repair job considering all that it entails. I don't kow of a contractor that will come to your house for less then $200 even if it only for a minor repair. Pay the people and be happy they werent malicious in getting the highest possible contractors. You ruined ther sheets and towels and they have to relace those too (thats additional time and drive). You were probably their worst guest. BTW, insurance doe not pay for plants, pots and cleaning and there is always a deductable before an insurance would cover any cost.

Sorry, I found your act as the victum here quite upsetting. You damaged something, you pay for it. What woud have happened if you did this in a hotel?

[Sandra126]

I also want to know: How did the plant pot end up in the pool? Curious. I used to have a pool and I wonder how it is possible to clean it for 50 euros if full of soil etc. You could run the filter and replace it maybe, as cleaning the filter would not suffice. A filter for my pool would cost AUD200. So that was a bargain for you.

[Ana1136]

@Sandra126 they say they didn't cause the dammage in the title yet he writes a whole essay on how they damaged the property.

[Sandra126]

Yet, that tile would not have been damaged if the pot had not fallen in and needed to be put back, regardless of who replaced it in the spot. I feel there are missing bits in this story.

[Ryan520]

The point of the post was to highlight we know we are responsible for cracking the plant pot, but that the host has tried to massively rip us off out of it. We are happy to pay for damages we caused, of course - we're not heathens, we're reasonable people. But we're not going to be rinsed by someone who's trying to rip us off and massively overcharge us. 

As an AirBnB host, you rent out, you take the risk there might be damages and should have insurance in the event there is. Accidents always happen, so to not have insurance is just ridiculous. 

If you're not going to be helpful and answer my questions, and are just going to insult our competence, don't bother replying. 

[Ryan520]

Please see reply to @Ana1136's post. 

[Louise231]

@Ryan520Dunno, it's a bit scummy to leave it to check out to tell a host their pool is full of soil.

It's probably somthing you should mention as soon as it happens so they could sort while you were still there, especially if you wanted to check costs.

Also you're kind of ruining the next person's holiday, because if you'vr spent a few days trying to clean it and havn't managed to, then you could probs guess it's going to take a host more than 4 hours.

I think the 484 Euro's is pretty cheap for that to be honest.  pool's are a right bitch to clean and if a tile is broke it's not like you can just put filler over it...

[Ryan520]

It happened at 11:30 at night on the Wednesday. We spent the Thursday trying to contact the host, but could not get hold of her. We checked out on the Friday morning at 8:55am. The villa was in Spain, the host was situated in Belgium and therefore has a "keyholder" -> Also unreachable. We did try. 

We were using pool cleaning nets; the host had a proper pool vacuum in her basement that was chained up and we were not allowed to use. The pool itself was scrubbed clean; the issue was floating soil in the water... it moved with the wave of an arm.. it was the equivalent of having loads of leaves floating on the water... but much smaller... and sitting in the bottom.. easy to move, but a pain in the ass. 

The tile was a concrete block with a plastic coating; not expensive. You can order concrete curbstones for $1.31 from the US online, and plastic coating is anywhere from £10-£50. Certainly not the 500€ she demanded. The entire house was built from IKEA (cheap). 

[John1080]

@Ryan520 @Ana1136 @Louise231 @Sandra126, I too am interested to hear how the pot ended up in the pool. In any case, you should have notified the hosts at once, not leaving it until the last moment, which could have potentially caused major issues with the turnover time and the next guests. 

Also, if I were the host, and the pot was damaged along with the tile, even if you didn't cause it, I would have to assume that you were in fact responsible. 

[Ryan520]

Please see @Ana1136's post for explanation. We did try to contact the hosts; it happened late on wednesday and we left early friday morning; they did not respond on the thursday, and only responded on the friday morning before the keyholder arrived (the host was situated in belgium, the villa in spain, so everything was done through the keyholder, who we didnt have contact with). 

[Mark116]

Well, it seems, based on your own version of the story, that you did significant damage to the property, and I suspect that the bleach stains were not the fault of the host either, but came about as a result of your attempts to 'clean'.  I don't know if airbnb can make you pay, but they can certainly keep you off the platform.  I'm not sure why you don't want to pay.