Another issue for AIrbnb to "fix" (Scary)

[Christine615]

So this came up on another off-site forum. Kind of concerning. I own my property and tax records would prove it. But it occurred to me that I registered to be a "host" one evening and had bookings the next day without any stringent verification other than me checking some box to say I was the owner or had the owner's permission. So what does Airbnb do to prevent this from happening to other homeowners whose property is stolen (and protect  guests who might book an Airbnb not knowing the tenant is not the owner)

Summary for this case:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/homeowners-find-tenants-gone-and-airbnb-strangers-living-f...

!. Tenant lists airbnb home without home owner's permission

2. Airbnb guests create havoc and locks out host

3. Airbnb guest squats on property and uses eviction moratorium to keep owner from getting their house back but aren't paying a dime.

Airbnb controls all the cards. If it is going to continue being a dominant global player, it has to do a better job at vetting its hosts and guests. And if a mistake is made, it has to make the injured party whole i.e. Airbnb should reimburse the homeowners and use it's legal power to claw back the money from the original host. It should also work with law enforcement to help remove scam artists who are gaming the system.

Tagging @Catherine-Powell 

[Kelly149]

@Christine615 well, brand new hosts don't get their first payment until 30 days later, so it should be easy enough to withhold payment if the problem becomes apparent soon enough. 

but, yes, abb could do more. and they should.

I will not be over here holding my breath

btw, most of the listings in my highly regulated nearby town are unregistered and therefore illegal, I've never noticed that this bothers abb one bit

[Emilia42]

@Christine615 

Wow, but little surprises me when it comes to Airbnb. I have read a few instances on this forum where landlords have found listings of their apartments posted by their tenants. When the landlord asks Airbnb to remove the listing with proof of ownership, Airbnb has said there is nothing they can do. 

[Anonymous]

@Christine615   I know it's not unusual for hosts to be tenants - in Berlin, for example, 82% of homes are occupied by renters, and the percentage of hosts who are renters is probably not far off. Airbnb is well aware of this and has no intention of changing its policy to homeowners-only. And even if they did on paper, you know they're not going to have staff poring over documents from 186 countries in dozens of languages to verify their authenticity. But it's crazy that there's not even a step to verify access to the physical address - like, at least sending a postcard with a code number, the same way they verify an email or phone number. 

It seems like an altogether separate failing that local governments are regarding Airbnb bookings as residential lease agreements. What a convenient loophole that establishes - squat a vacant house, rent it out to yourself under an alias on Airbnb, and become the rightful tenant for the price of a modest service fee. Now I sort of hope someone tries it...

[Christine615]

I agree. I have no problem with tenants being hosts when they have permission. I have a problem with the way Airbnb vetts it’s users then refuses to get involved when something blows up,

We see that in my city. After asking hosts to help get Kansas City to legalize short term rentals they then didn’t bother to verify that new hosts flooding the market were following the rules or even had permission to rent the space they lived in. 

In the case above, Airbnb took, at face value, the host/tenant  was legally entitled to use the space then wouldn’t work with the true owners when it was clear “guests” that were Airbnb users were squatting. How hard is it to check tax records for that address?

Airbnb made money. The unauthorized host made money, the law should permit the homeowners to sue both for monetary damages. And the law should be changed to say that short term rentals are not subject to tenancy laws. No o e would try this at a hotel.

if Airbnb is going to be a global brand it needs to start finding a safer way to build its “inventory of hosts and guests.” Right now it feels like a free-for-all ripe for fraud.

[Anonymous]

@Christine615 Oh yes, people do indeed try it at hotels! Not so much the 5* type, most commonly the budget motels and SROs with weekly rates. It's not uncommon that they'll require guests to vacate for 1 night per month so that they can't claim continuous residency in one room.

There are better ways to protect tenants than laws that make people unwitting landlords.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean when you say, in a couple different threads, "Airbnb vets its users." This is news to me. What kind of vetting are we talking about here? 

[Christine615]

@Anonymous I was at the city council meeting where a councilwoman asked how Airbnb assured they wouldn’t be putting pedophiles and other sex offenders next door to families and Airbnb’s rep assured them that they do background checks and verified identities. 

They don’t do that. They don’t even require new guests to wait until the credit card is verified. They don’t verify that the property we list actually exists. 

Then they changed the TOS to require hosts to approve guests with no previous reviews based only on a first name and no profile picture. They censor our inboxes to prevent phone numbers, last names and mentions of Facebook (including the initials FB) when we try to determine if the guest is safe to book but allow con men and fakers to ask if we can talk on WhatsApp. 

Hosts are reporting real problems that Airbnb isn’t addressing. Instead it changed it’s TOS to ban users from accessing class action suits. 

It’s ludicrous.

[Anonymous]

@Christine615  ToS 17. "Member Accounts":

. If and as permitted by applicable law, we may, but have no obligation to (i) ask you to provide identification or other information, (ii) undertake checks designed to help verify your identity or background, (iii) screen you against third-party databases or other sources and request reports from service providers, and (iv) obtain reports from public records of criminal convictions or sex offender registrations or their local equivalents.

They probably didn't send their cleverest lobbyist to that council meeting, but the policy above vaguely suggests that maybe they'll do a background check. But one might ask, at what point between creating an account and publishing or booking a listing will that happen? Every step involved - including the voluntary ID verification - is fully automated. You or I could easily create a "verified" account with the full name and mug shot of John Wayne Gacy, and even create a listing at 8213 West Summerdale Avenue. (5* Accuracy, 3* Location, 1* Cleanliness). Within minutes, we could place a booking request and what the host would see on the profile is:

Hi, I'm John.

Joined in 2020.

Lives in: Chicago, Ill.

Your councilwoman was probably more concerned with zoning regulations than actual pedophile serial killers, but all of that is true.

And yet, this is no different to the Wild West that Airbnb was years ago when we signed on. That patina of legitimacy and rigorous process is what a hefty marketing budget buys....and we Americans have a reputation for being taken in by some pretty terrible salesmen.

[Christine615]

Right! I was never concerned because I could check on guests or at least communicate with them before I approved. Now I have to be a contortionist to get info because Airbnb comes in and deleted info from the messages. One newly registered guest (like signed up that day) asked to book for six weeks. She tried answering the required questions (names of other guests, what brings you to KC, etc,) and Airbnb kept replacing the info with “website deleted by Airbnb.”

So she sent her phone number one number at a time and now Airbnb blocks that strategy too. Same when I try to send my number.

One day a host or guest will get hurt and the fact that hosts have been screaming about this bogus process will end Airbnb’s business model.

Such a simple fix. Stop getting in the way of hosts and guests. Verify listings before they go live. Verify credit cards for new users with two test amounts. Then let us communicate with guests without censorship.

But mind still blown that they are silent about this case where an Airbnb guest they allowed to book in the platform is stealing someone’s house. That’s right up there with the known felon who booked a home stay then performed a sex act in front of the hosts before escaping and ending up in a twelve hour stand-off with a SWAT team.

[Anonymous]

@Christine615  Oh wow, I don't think I heard about the exhibitionist felon. That must have been some crazy sex act, if SWAT had to get involved!

One really crazy thing about the auto-censorship is, they're even using it in Community DMs. When hosts try to connect with each other for co-hosting gigs or offline communication, Airbnb even gets in the way of that. I've had to develop an elaborate queer code just to get my contacts to someone up the street who needed an emergency check-in. It really did help that my email server rhymes with she-male.

I can understand their overzealousness about blocking off-platform communication before they've gotten their money. Like any agency, they want to make sure we don't make outside arrangements and cut them out of the deal. But what this reveals to me is some recognition that hosts are not finding their service to be worth the fees. If we felt that the Host Guarantee was for real, that we actually had some protection from damages, that our cancellation policies would be honored, and that our payouts were secure, we'd have every reason to keep our bookings on-platform even if we had other means to contact the guests. But when they're not making good on all those promises, their only leverage is obstruction and censorship. It's not a good look. 

[Christine615]

Nope. I still think Airbnb could fix this but since they laid off a bunch of people  I’m not holding my breath. 

As for the pervy guest, a local host reported that she had a guy that made her uncomfortable. Asked her if she wanted to see his guns, then left his bedroom door open and played with himself when she walked by. He left before she could call the police.

She didn’t know about the SWAT team until another host found the news report and posted the link. 12 hour stand off the same day of his booking I think. They found guns and meth in his possession. So much for background checks and host safety. 

Let’s see if the new Host committee can knock some common sense into Airbnb.

[Anonymous]

@Christine615  Ha, let's not hold our breath. Airbnb operates from the inside like a cult; it doesn't actually welcome outside influence or dissent, so much as convenient set dressing to enhance their media narrative. There's a pretty upfront oath of obedience.

I'll hold my tongue on this a bit here so I don't get Susan'd, but feel free to DM me if you want to know how what this thing actually is.

[Kelly149]

@Anonymous Ooooooooo, SNEAKY!!

Anonymous Bad Guy A: breaks into empty summer house, takes photos, creates listing

Amonymous Bad Guy B: makes reservation, never leaves

ABB doesn’t care, “eviction” must go thru proper channels, homeowner is screwed. This makes for a lovely horror film

[Sarah977]

Airbnb should require that hosts provide either their ownership papers or a notarized letter of permission for a tenant to list. 

They require all sorts of documentation for hosts to make damage claims, or to provide medical documentation if a host needs to cancel reservations due to an accident or illness, and those come in every language, so if they can do that, they can do the other.

They simply, obviously, don't care.

[Anonymous]

@Sarah977  They require documentation when it can be used to deny or reduce the value of a claim.

Not when it adds friction to the profit stream.