How do I handle extra guest issue after check-out?

[Mike1667]

I am very new to hosting and only on my 6th or so hosting for our cottage.  The rental is for the entire house.

I received a last minute booking by someone with zero reviews.  I know.  The booking was for 2 adults and 2 kids which is fine for this smaller house.  The limit on the listing is 5 people and I do have listed in my house rules, no unregistered guests allowed in the property.  As a newbie I did not have a extra person fee and quite frankly don't want more people than 5 in there. 

I used the Airbnb messaging to send the guest a message which was polite and said I wanted to confirm how many people are staying since the booking only indicated 4 people.  No response.  4 hours later still no response.  I am fairly certain she saw the messages and just ignored them since she checked out 2 days ago and she still did not respond.  Also, they were smoking in the doorway of the house and it's on the RING doorbell footage.  House rules are no smoking in or near the property.  Lastly, check-out at 11am and by 11:45 they were still wrapping up.  

So the stay has ended, I am still learning, but want to know if I can or should seek recourse through Airbnb to ask for additional money.  Is it too late?

They did leave the house in good shape.

Thoughts?

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Mike1667 I think I would have just let it go and not contacted them at all. I am afraid all you have done now is risk them leaving a bad review in anticipation that you will do the same. 

Lets hope they don't.

[Emilia42]

@Mike1667 So how many people were there? 2 adults and 2 children? 

[Mike1667]

It ended up being 6 chain smoking adults and 2 kids---who were 17 or 18.  

[Emilia42]

@Mike1667 If it was me, I would set your guest count at 4 max and take out the couch as a "sleeping arrangement." In my listing, I don't even show a picture of the couch because I don't want to allude to the idea that an extra person can sleep on it.

These guests clearly lied from the beginning and it would have been hard to know what could have prevented that problem. I wouldn't seek any recourse now. It may not be worth your time, energy, and bad review and there is a big chance your wouldn't even anywhere. Make sure you accurately review these guests.

[Anonymous]

@Mike1667  I'm not clear on what exactly you'd want monetary recourse for, but I don't see anything here that applies.

Your Ring doorbell footage should indicate how many people entered the property, so if they exceeded your capacity your choices would have been to either amend the booking to reflect the total or ask the unregistered guests to leave. Without a listed Extra Guest Fee, you'd have no grounds to ask for extra money. 

Same goes for smoking - you can ask the guests to stop smoking, or you can kick them out for breaking your rules, but you don't really have grounds for a damage claim if there wasn't damage.

Airbnb does have some provisions for Overstay Fees (see Sec. 8.2.2. of the Terms of Service)  but it's hard to imagine that 45 minutes would be worth pursuing.

Bottom line is, the job of enforcing your rules and keeping control over your property falls onto you as the host, and you have to do it in real time. If you expect your primary recourse to run through Airbnb, you'll be very disappointed with the results.

[Sharon1014]

@Mike1667   I think this is where the problem is....

There are 2 Queen beds in the bedrooms and a full-size sofa for another guest. Please note, this is not a sleep sofa.

You state that the property sleeps 5.  But there are just 2 beds, both queens.  If you don't intend for the sofa to be used for a 5th guest to sleep on, then you should remove mention of it.  You learn as a host to let some things slide, and use it as a learning experience to avoid the same thing happening again.   

Btw, why do you think there were 5 people?  You don't mention what led you to believe there was an extra guest.  Nevertheless, just let it go and amend your listing so it's clear whether the house sleeps 4 or 5.

[Mike1667]

Thanks for the responses so far.  I have a Ring doorbell which clearly showed the number of people exceeded 4 guests as the booking indicated.  Even at 1am when there were 5 adults smoking outside I knew they exceeded the number.

It's really frustrating to know that I may get a revenge review after reviewing them.  I wish Airbnb would have a better process for this.  For me, I want to leave an honest review to save other Airbnb Hosts from dealing with them.  I could selfishly not leave them a review and save myself a revenge review but it hurts the Airbnb community.  Very frustrating.

Regarding some who say, you should have contacted them to say stop smoking in the doorway or I will kick you out - kinda what was suggested - I DID try twice to reach them via messaging through Airbnb and they did not respond.  I think they knew they broke the rules and wanted to see what I would do.

The recourse of seeking money would be for the extra consumables they used (paper towels, water, additional electricity, towels, etc.)

So how do I enforce rules when the guests do not answer my questions?  I did not feel comfortable calling them as I wanted the discussion documented.  

[Sharon1014]

@Mike1667   You can insist on no smoking in the house, but what people do outside and within what distance from the house is not within your gift.  There will always be a few guests who push the limits, you learn to just suck it up and move on.  There is absolutely no point stressing about a few extra dollars for consumables, small potatoes.  

This last week for example, we had a day before booking for 2 guests who live locally, 2 night stay, and they bring 3 or 4 loads of personal laundry to do while they are here just because use of the washer and dryer is free.  It baffles me.  But it is such a small thing compared to some of the more nightmare things can go so horribly wrong, not worth sweating over the little stuff.   You can't micro manage your guests.  The only thing you can do is make sure your listing does everything possible to discourage the type of guest you don't want and that you make what you do offer 100% clear.

[Emilia42]

@Mike1667 

"I could selfishly not leave them a review and save myself a revenge review but it hurts the Airbnb community"

Your logic is wrong. The guests can always review you regardless of whether you review them or not. If they review you, the review will show up on your profile after the 14 day review period has ended or when you leave them a review - whichever comes first. Some hosts will not review them until the last minute on the 14th day in hopes that the review notification will not trigger a review in return or at least to give yourself an unblemished rating until absolutely necessary. 

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Mike1667 You not leaving a review would not stop them leaving one for you. The review(s) are posted 14 days after the stay of when both parties have left a review whichever is the sooner.

As such I recommend you do leave a review but close to the end of the 14 day period so that they are less likely to respond with one of their own.

As no damage was done and they only smoked outside I would let this on go if I were you.

[Mike1667]

I fully understand how the review process works.  What I am trying to emphasize is that I am 95% sure they will NOT leave a review for me UNLESS I leave one for them.  I just know it.  They already know I saw they had extra guests and they did not respond so they should be smart enough to figure out if I do review them it will not be good - they don't need to see the review to know it's not good since I contacted them three times for too many guests (twice) and late check out.

I guess I am surprised that no one suggests to make a claim or something when I have video footage of eight guests in a small house designed for 5 max and the guest flat-out ignored my attempts to contact them.  

[Emilia42]

@Mike1667 I hope you're right. I thought that way twice this week. One guest reviewed me after 5 days and the other 12 days after checkout. You just never know; guests aren't always that smart. 

[Anonymous]

@Mike1667   The guest can say "we never got your messages because the WiFi didn't work in your house."

And then you know what might happen next? Airbnb will refund 50% of their stay out of your pocket due to missing amenities (if WiFi was offered) and ignore your complaint about the excess guests.

Besides, surely you know that you can't just go straight to Airbnb to "make a claim" - you have to first request payment directly from the guest first. Wouldn't this also trigger a revenge review?

Bottom line is, there's no use in letting things happen just because you assuming your listing service will grant you recourse later. I can understand your hesitation to do anything that might lead to a bad review, but it's entirely your choice how much risk you'll expose your property to out of the very fear that these awful people are actively exploiting.

[Helen3]

Leaving reviews as a host helps other hosts know what the guest was like and helps warn them about bad behaviour. @Mike1667 

I would suggest you leave a review about them at the last possible moment.

When the guest didn’t respond you would have been better going there to confront them and either have them pay for extra guests through the Resolution Centre or have the additional guests leave.

Much harder for you to manage this situation days after the guest had left.

In terms of check out - did you remind the guests of the check out time the night before and that you or your cleaners would be there promptly at 11 for post check out checks