Arbitration? Small Claims?

[Shannon333]

Hello all,

Looking for some commentary on how arbitration went and any after-effects. We had a guest steal about $1K of consumables (toilet paper, laundry detergent, paper towels, cleaning supplies) + vacuum and a stool, and Airbnb is interested in paying out less than half, claiming that consumables are excluded in the TOS. I am unable to find this in the exclusions.

Interesting twist to our guest story is that she had 0 reviews, we met her in person at the home and DURING HER STAY airbnb removed her from the platform due to violation of guest agreement, without adequately informing us. We did receive a generic email warning us to more or less keep an eye out for sketchy guests and follow airbnb rules because someone we'd had contact with had been removed from the platform. No information as to which guest or even that it was a guest. I called customer service to find out which guest, and they refused to disclose and told me there was nothing to worry about. 

Little did we know, that guest was currently finishing her stay with us, which ended with the missing items and add'l cleaning costs due to place being trashed.

We cannot contact the guest at this point as she was removed from the platform. Let's not get into the fact that this could have been much, much worse including significant safety and security risks to ourselves and property given the guest would be pissed off, with nothing to lose and a history of bad behavior that resulted in the platform removal in the first place. Guest had provided an ID as a part of account sign-up, so we know airbnb has her info. We're now considering the two remaining options to getting paid for the missing items. We are not interested in leaving the platform and please note that we consider this a business decision looking for financial compensation only. 

Option 1 - Under current TOS, it appears we can pursue arbitration for a $200 filing fee. I'm curious as to the after-effects of filing - has anyone filed, won/lost and stayed on the platform as a host? Did airbnb penalize you? If you win, do they pay back the filing fee as a part of your costs?

Option 2 - We can file a small claims case against guest. Question here is how to get the guest address out of Airbnb as they have told us repeatedly they will not share it. This is required for us to file the case. Anyone have experience in this arena? 

Are there other options we are not aware of? 

Thanks in advance! 

[Kelly149]

@Shannon333 

Abb will NEVER share guest info with you. The only way to have this is to personally get guest ID /info. 

Sure, go for arbitration. Abb may kick you off platform sooner or later. No way to know really. 

Sorry you got a bad egg

[Ben551]

@Shannon333  I’m sorry you had a bad experience with a guest. It’s always disappointing when guests behave this way, however it is more common than not.

The bad news is, neither arbitration or small claims court will award you compensation for consumables. It’s not wrong under the law for a guest to take more than their fair share of consumable items. This is because, excessive use of complimentary products is not considered theft... not in the US... not anywhere.  Airbnb therefore don’t have to explicitly state this in their TOS, it’s inherently permitted under the law and is general allowed by society.

If it was unacceptable to take too many consumables, hotels would have been suing guests for years. Around half all hotel guests clean out every hotel jar, packet and sachet during their stay.

It is generally expected by society that the amount of complimentary items provided are all available to use by a guest. Therefore, if you want guests to us less, you need to provide less. Also, this is why hotels and most hosts are moving away from any kind of individually packaged consumables. It’s bad for the environment, expensive, and it makes it easier for guests to uplift more than their fair share.

I would take some time to think through how you could adjust your listing to be less Poodle friendly (I.e. people who pilfer more than their fair share). I moved to offering soap on pump, spreads in little reusable home filled jars, hell even butter in a glass dish I refill myself. No sachets or packets. I even limit the amount of paper towel per guest, the amount of laundry liquid in the pump, the number of toilet rolls... it’s all down to the amount I’m prepared for guests to use. Plus, if they want to clean me out, they would need to bring their own containers and a funnel!

Your property (the vacuum and the stool), however, should be covered by the host guarantee, so Airbnb should compensate you for them.

[Shannon333]

Ben, thanks for the great response! This is why I posted about it... You don't know what you don't know. 

Sounds like we will just roll with what we've got in terms of reimbursement and move forward with an additional locked closet to store the remaining items that were previously out. 

[Ben551]

@Shannon333  no problem and that sounds very pragmatic.  I think the locked closet idea will work fine.  We have something similar, having learned that some people are quite keen on extra value freebies 🙂

[Aubrey13]

We actually already have a locked closet and have for some time, it just doesn't fit our bulk items like toilet paper and paper towels. We kept the laundry soap by the laundry machines for convenience, but I guess we will adjust that going forward given each one of those bottles is about $20. I think we'll just reappropriate another closet to add more storage space.

Thanks again - 

[Rebecca181]

One of the reasons we keep all our supplies and consumables locked up  (we leave 'extras' in the drawers and closets in case the guest needs to replenish supplies during their stay - but only a reasonable amount based on how long their reservation is). Did this guest actually break into your storage space or was it open and available to her? If she broke into it, this might give you more leverage if you enter arbitration. Possibly.

[Shannon333]

Curious if anybody else has run into the issue where the guest was removed from the platform during the stay and somehow found out the way we did (after the fact)? Are you obligated to let the guest complete the stay regardless? I feel like there is tremendous risk to doing so with a guest who has nothing to lose and a bad history that led to their removal. 

Trying to safeguard better in the future against this possibility. 

[Amy918]

My suggestion would be to have a separate and very specific legal document (contract) that you send to each guest before their stay.  Send it through DocuSign (electric signature) and then that way they are legally aware of what your expectations are before, during, and after the stay and then they are also aware of any and all reprocussions legally for different scenarios.  

Does any other host do something else like this?!? 

[Amy918]

Also, to the points previously... we absolutely have “an owners” locked closet in our condo.  Only person who ever has access to that other than ourselves is our cleaning person.  We keep extra supplies, clean linens, and also tools, and other personal items of ours in there we don’t want accessed.  

[Kelly149]

@Amy918 

yes, I have a signed rental agreement & get main guest ID & info (address, email, cell #). Also names, city/state, age, contact # for all extra adult guests. 

Abb info is a beginning point, not an end and the guest is explicitly told that THEY, not abb, are responsible for the space while it is in their possession. 

[Angie204]

Hi @Kelly149, how do you execute these documents? Meet the guest at the house? Send it to them after the fact, considering that you only have access to guest info after they book? What if they don't sign? Do you cancel their booking at that point? Thanks.

[Kelly149]

@Angie204 you could look at my listing to see how it's laid out there and then, yes, after booking you go thru the actual steps... could be via email ahead of time or in person. I try to make clear how all this will go down before they book so that there aren't problems after. Also, in reality, most of my available dates tend to be snapped up by Vrbo guests, so it's been awhile since we've had an ABB reservation

[Ben551]

@Amy918  Great suggestion, I agree.

[Shannon333]

In an interesting turn of events, I was doing some bookkeeping tonight and clicked on the payout we received from this claim. Then noticed that it looks like our friend who stole from us now has 1 review - which can only mean that she is now active on the platform again, because when she stayed with us (and account was subsequently removed during her stay), she had 0 reviews. Click on her profile, it clicks through (didn't before when inactive) and sure enough, the review was recent.

Concerned on a number of levels.

1) Doesn't feel like airbnb is honoring the trust and commitment to community in general by reactivating a guest who has stolen. 

2) Other hosts are sitting ducks with no idea that this guest stole from us, since there was no way to leave a review on an inactive account. Airbnb will not permit us to leave a review at this point.

3) On the flip side, this has to mean that I/my listings are also a sitting duck for somebody else's terrible guest. Could this include more than stealing? how much stealing? Where is the line? Assault? 

Can anyone else weigh in?