Reviewing after damage we hope will be rectified by the responsible Guest

[Mary996]

I was in a situation where I now regret NOT reviewing a guest.

I wanted to say something along the lines that " these guests caused damage... at this point in time I am progressing a claim against them. If the matter is settled then I hope to be able to remove this review". Do you see where I'm coming from?

No-one wants to say negative things unjustifiably. They felt I was asking too much compensation. I invited them to make an offer but eventually had no response except for the threat of a £200,000 claim for 'racism'. In my opinion it would have been racist NOT to have claimed for the damage they caused!

I am considering a small claims court action.

Has anyone used this route?

[Kath9]

@Mary996, I'm sorry to hear about this. I can't advise on the small claims court as I've never had to go down this route, but I have seen other hosts say that this is your best course of action in cases like this. What concerns me is that you didn't review them - why on earth not? If hosts don't review guests who don't do the right thing, the system cannot work. I have said time and time again on this forum that we hosts only have each other - we cannot expect Airbnb to protect us. I can't understand why your negative review would have been 'unjustifiable' if they did indeed cause damage. Please review your guests honestly.

[Mary996]

@Kath9

Thanks for your response and kind interest. I had intended to leave an 11th hour review. This was being advised on earlier posts in this Community and seemed to me to be good idea. However for the benefit of others the cut off time relates to your requested checkout time and not to midnight of the day in question (which seems illogical to me!!). So I actually missed being able to post a brief cautionary review. I agree that it is important to review …. 

HOWEVER the gist of my question to self remains. Is there not a way to encourage Guests to behave decently and to comply with reasonable expectations of  this Community? Bad publicity (only if its the truth) is an incentive in other strata. Although I can see how that could present problems. I actually had a Guest who came in via the 'Instant Book' procedure an hour in advance and we had no time to read his reviews due to making hurried preparations. Once  he had settled in, with a companion, we noted amongst his reviews an extreme caution from a female Host who warned that he (this Guest, not the same Guests in this current question) had locked himself into his room when due to leave saying he would adversely review unless she gave him a full refund (essentially attempting to bribe for a free stay). She got help and ridded herself of him (phew) so I can see how this could turn bad. BUT I believe it is possible within the 14 days allocated to change our reviews, presumably if someone does make reparations. Our perspective is …. (I would have thought) " How can we appreciate Guests who redeem themselves after a claim is settled". Because it might take more than 14 days.

[Anonymous]

@Mary996   I don't know what you think "racism" means but suffice it to say, your concept of it does not map onto any I've ever heard of if you can seriously say something like "it would have been racist NOT to have claimed for the damage they caused."   It does sound like you're in a dispute that's escalating to a degree of stress that might be clouding your judgment somewhat.

The review you wish you'd posted would have violated the anti-extortion policy and been deleted anyway, as you're basically demanding money in exchange for removing a negative review. That's not "racist" but it's unethical.  (And also not possible - you can't just delete a published review when you change your mind). The point of the review is to help other hosts make an informed decision, not to gain leverage in a claims process. If you have evidence that the damage was caused by irresponsible or negligent behavior, or an inappropriate use of your facilities, it would have been prudent to mention this in a review. 

[Helen350]

I presume @Mary996 's guests were of a different race from her, @Anonymous , - & that they used this as a (spurious) counter-claim/threat, when she claimed for damage. I otherwise agree with your comments.

[Anonymous]

@Helen350   We don't really know one way or other whether the counter-claim was spurious, do we?

[Helen350]

@Anonymous True, but I just thought 200K was excessive, therefore likely to have been tit for tat! - Retaliatory.

(I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to decipher an OP that is a tad unclear & confusing - as Helen3 observed!) 

[Anonymous]

@Helen350  I agree, it is unclear and I feel like too many relevant facts are missing for me to have any understanding of what's going on here. One thing this thread does illustrate, which is quite important to show to hosts who are afraid of writing negative reviews, is that when they fail to write an honest review, they forfeit the ability to shape the narrative. And of course that becomes relevant in the event of a dispute - it's hard to trust the words of a party who found nothing "justifiably negative" to say until over 2 weeks after the stay was over.

[Mary996]

@Anonymous 

In this instance I had drafted a review which will have been visible to Airbnb... I also responded to each and every point raised by the Guest and my good will would have been transparent. Their claim was dismissed as groundless. I was compensated  I am pleased to report. I appreciate that I am making a number of points here which I regret makes reading from the view point of all of you somewhat complex but thanks for bearing with me. I continue to explore these various issues and visualise that we will be contributing to the constant improvement and betterment of Airbnb.

[Mary996]

Exactly Helen. Thanks for getting it.

[Mary996]

@Andrew4 

Hi Andrew, I'm trying not to get all spikey about your various responses and instead to envision that you are interested in arriving at a good understanding of the various perspectives that I'm putting forward as a fellow Host... including that the parameters of Airbnb are most certainly subject to revision at the request of ourselves  in relation to the conduct of our Agent - Airbnb. 

I suggest we need to firmly hold to the perspective that we are in charge of this relationship and that ultimately we govern Airbnb to whom  a fee is paid for 'dealing' on our behalves.

Happy to engage in discussions which advance our interests as Hosts in particular with respect to improvements that benefit  our relationship with Guests leading to smooth operations and skilful transactions when Guests are negligent. Its obviously important that we (as Hosts chatting here), understand one another in communications that contribute to such proposals. 

[Helen3]

Hello @Mary996 

Have to say I am a little confused by your post.

Why would you not have left an honest review for a guest that caused over 200K in damages?

I am sure you wouldn't have put in a claim for 200K unless you had quotes and invoices for this amount.

Why would you not pursue the claim through Airbnb guarantee/and your home insurance for short term lets.

Please familiarise yourself with Airbnb review policies. You cannot mention an outstanding dispute nor can you remove reviews once they are posted.

You can say something like XXX was this type of guest. Sadly they  caused XXX damage by doing XXX. Say whether they informed you of damage. So far XXX have refused to pay for the damage they caused.  In the circumstances I could not recommend them as guests. I star. Do not recommend.

If you want to take it to small claims court you will need to demonstrate that Airbnb have turned down your claim and will obviously need their full contact details in the UK. Before doing that run a credit check on them. No point wasting time and money if they have no assets or money.

[Helen350]

@Helen3 I don't think @Mary996  was asking for 200K damages from her bad guests; I rather think the guests threatened her with a daft threat of a daft 200K claim against Mary in retaliation for her claim for damages. (Amount unspecified here by Mary.) And guests played the race card, as their only possible means of retaliation.

 I agree that the guests transgressions should have been mentioned in the review to warn others - whether the guests payed up or not, & I agree that hosts should not use reviews as bargaining tools, with promise of withdrawal for good behaviour. Also, hosts MUST NOT MENTION AIRBNB INVOLVEMENT/DISPUTE RESOLUTION in reviews!

[Helen3]

You are correct @Helen350  - reading at speed 😞

However @Mary996  can you comment on

1. What damage guest caused

2. Why you didn't leave a review

3. Why you aren't claiming through your home insurance for STRs/Airbnb for damages

[Mary996]

@Helen3

Yes the young black law student threatened me with a 200k threat as a prospective counterclaim... you have understood correctly. Thanks. He was not the party who I had met and had discussions with which made things complex. I have in the past gone to lengths to explain to other third party bookers (eg on behalf of children) that we don't accept such bookings and the would-be Guest needs to create their own profile but this Guest was going to be one of the party staying with us.

The Guest who retaliated had made the booking after all communications had been through his brother as mentioned above,who was graduating, living locally and wanting to host his family as cheaply as possible for the event and for a little holiday in addition. Regrettably he did not convey any of the pre-conditions we had agreed (in advance at a meeting here when I showed him around and explained the limitations of the space).  The prospective Graduate assured me he understood,  that they would honour the requests and that he would convey the issues to his family. But the Guest was afraid of his father and this is what made things difficult. They were lovely people and if they had honoured my various requests for consideration or booked elsewhere instead all would have been well.

It was a learning experience! I won't be agreeing to accommodate additional Guests as a favour in future!! I hope this is of help to other Hosts.

The other point that I've raised is a matter I still consider to be up for discussion …. and this is how we wish our Agents (Airbnb) to represent us in negotiations. I entirely understand the current system of reviewing with respect to avoiding reference to an on-going dispute... such a reference could put off other prospective Guests for one thing! But the issue I would like us to discuss here is about the possibility of "updating" reviews. So if a Host feels they have a claim, have conveyed that to the Guest without appropriate response and if the Host is then forced  to Review negatively ….under the current arrangement there is no incentive for Guests to modify or to reconsider their refusal to compensate a Host. The possibility of an update to the effect that a claim has been settled I suggest is perhaps of value to us as Hosts.