I had a guest who made false and slanderous review. Throug...
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I had a guest who made false and slanderous review. Through several conversations with Airbnb teams and supervisors, Airbnb...
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I'm absolutely furious!
My mother and I checked into an Airbnb in Granada after a long trip from Chicago, through London & Malaga, to Granada. We were eager to check in and get settled and relax. However, I noticed water on the floor of the kitchenette (and the bed wasn't far from there -- it was a one-room place), and I looked under the sink to see if there was a problem with the pipes, and I found BLACK MOLD all over the back wall where there had clearly been water damage. We had smelled something musty when we had first entered the place, but figured it was just an old building -- it was the mold!
Worried that we'd be left homeless for the night, I immediately booked another AirBnB nearby (one that had "instant booking"), and we left. Once checked into the new AirBnB down the street, I sent the first place's host a polite message saying what we had found, and told him that unfortunately, we would not be able to stay there, and would like a refund. Well, the guy put up a fight!
He said I wasn't behaving "correctly," and that I was trying to find things to complain about! WHY would I want to have to worry about finding another place last-minute like that, if there was no SERIOUS problem with his place? It makes no sense! I had taken photos of the water on the floor and the water damage and BLACK MOLD on the wall, and I sent him the photos. He said, "That's burn." LOL!!!
So, he fought me over it, and I told him that if he wouldn't grant the refund for an uninhabitable place, I would involve AirBnB. So I did. And after seeing the photos and hearing the description of the premises, THEY REFUSE TO REFUND ME!!! They said that I didn't abide by the policy of contacting the host and letting him try to resolve the situation! AS IF YOU COULD RESOLVE BLACK MOLD IN AN HOUR!!! Black mold is a toxic, serious problem that affects the air quality -- especially for people with asthma like me, which I also told AirBnB -- and it needs to be professionally eradicated, which takes at least a few days. I told AirBnB that it's not a typical "spill" or something that the host can clean up in a few minutes. It's a serious problem that would take DAYS to resolve, and my mother and I were only in Granada for a few days!
And what was I supposed to do, leave us HOMELESS for those 3 days that the host would be resolving his home's MOLD issue???!?!??! It's so unfair, and I'm absolutely FURIOUS about this. I tried writing to customer service again, and after a few days, I've received the same response. I'm incredulous.
Does anyone have any suggestions of how to get through to higher-ups at AirBnB to get this refunded? And to get this guy reported for renting out MOLDY premises? I can't believe that they even saw PHOTOS of the mold, and did nothing about it! I'M SO MAD!
Answered! Go to Best Answer
I'm going to attempt to tag a few folks in this thread (excuse my incompetence), as I have found something quite helpful in relation to black mould identification.
@Huma @Mark @Rebecca181 @Duane @Amos18 @Robin4 @Sarah @Lizzie @Cathie
New Zealand has quite a problem with damp housing, particularly those built in the 1970's through to the 1990's. The country is also struggling to recover (even 20 years later) from a "leaky home" crisis in the 1990's, which arose from poor building standards and shoddy contruction methods.
All this to say, we know a lot today about black mould and there are regulations that require landlords to deal with it, or face prosecution. This is extended to even short term let situations. If you are letting any part of your home, in NZ you are required to "know" (not just assume) that your property is free of toxic black mould spores.
Because of this requirement, a clever guy in Levin (not far north of where I live) invented a home testing kit for Landlords to use, late last year. This testing kit will allow landlords to confirm, with a degree of certainty that satisfies regulation, whether your particular black mould is a bad one or not.
Here is the article that describes the invention: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/103433813/levin-business-readies-launch-of-diy-test-for-toxic...
Here is the website that sells the home testing kit (2 cassettes) for NZD $99 (approx $68 USD): https://www.mednz.co.nz/detect4mould
From the site: "The Dect4mould Mould Test is simple to use, giving you accurate results in as little as 5 minutes. The tests identify mould species that the U.S. EPA considers to be health concerns for you and your family."
If you are a host and you would like some assurance in regard to mould spores on your property, I recommend you look into getting a home testing kit like this one.
In theory, if there are mould spores in your property and you have this type of test done, you could offer the test results to future guests... even state in your house manual to reassure guests that testing has been done. It would certainly make discussions with guests about "what mould is what" easier.
~ Ben
Yes, I see what you're saying. If I had known I wasn't posting to an unbiasedu forum, but rather a judgmental tribunal of hosts who tried to pick apart everything I said -- even my photos -- then I would have paid more attention to where and when I mentioned details like that.
For the record, everyone:
1) My mother and I both have asthma (and my mother has allergies on top of it), which is important, but is not some "overreaction" or "sensitivity" to an otherwise clean space. The space was musty, damp, and growing mold. Even those without asthma shouldn't be expected to stay in a place like that without complaint; asthma makes it ten times worse.
2) I contacted the host, who was at work, before we left his place, to tell him about the problem, but I was well aware that a water damage and mold problem like that couldn't be fixed in time for us to stay there. While waiting for him to respond, I decided I needed to ensure my mom and I would have a safe place to stay at least that night, and booked and moved to another Airbnb, and wrote him a follow-up message once we had gotten to the new one.
What I got out of this thread was not people offering truly helpful advice or even helpful criticism. I got a bunch of people questioning my firsthand experience in the first place, and ended up having to argue about how much water was on the floor and if it's mold at all. I added photos, and even those weren't good enough for this jury (which, as I said, I didn't realize was going to be judge and jury in the first place).
So what are you supposed to do when you say things were a certain way, show photos of it, and instead of people assuming the best in you and your integrity and your intelligence, they question your very ability to recognize water from a mop vs. a puddle leaking from under a sink, or mold vs. dirt? There's nowhere reasonable to go from there.
@Hillary-and-Adam0 I understand and sympathise. This hasn't been pleasant at all for you.
Please don't take my previous post as an interrogation in any way (I assumed your mother and yourself must both be Asthmatic), that's certainly not my intention. I was more trying to point out (in case helpful if you ever need to raise a complaint again) that consistency is everything.
I think if your complaint unfolded with Airbnb the same way as in this forum, then I can see why their CS team didn't support it. I'm not saying they were right not to support your claim... I can't possibly draw a conclusion from behind a keyboard in New Zealand, based on a couple of photos... but I'm highlighting a future lesson (for anyone reading this) that consistency and complete information "up front" is very important to winning a good outcome. This applies to any accomodation platform, not just Airbnb. You'll find BDC and HomeAway exactly the same in that regard. If they smell a gap in a story they will disregard it's credibility without a second glance. There is also a lot of inconsistency around when they do or don't... it's a moving feast at best! If only customer service was simpler and more logical... it's actually something we've been discussing on here lately, with some suggestions for improvement.
Anyway, not intending to bang on about it. Just wanted to share a few thoughts I had. In particular because your post was asking what to do in this situation. What I'd do is try to analyse what I could do differently next time to influence the outcome. I think you've done that now by the sounds, so I recommend pouring a glass of wine 🙂
Couldn't agree more with you. I am dealing with the same issue now and am not encouraged by what I am reading here.
@Hillary-and-Adam0 Sorry you had such a disturbing event here as it reads.
Unfortunately you made one really big mistake - didn't alert the host immediately!
Which really surprises me as you were so thorough with your details, photos and description of everything. I have to say that was kinda unfair.....sure you freaked with what you take for black mold.
looks like funk, dirt to me- burn??? sure could be - I'm no mold inspector - under the cabinet photo looks more like acid or something was poured or burned back there - could be mold - ??? But, I don't think unless it is checked by a pro and tested can you say "Black Mold" - that would probably close a place down and cause the hosts great stuggles to bounce back - esp. if it is - and worse if it is NOT.
You can imagine the hosts being so shocked after the fact - you are gone - demanding a refund and they didn't see it coming at all. You decided and took action but forgot the Host!
That water on the floor looks like left over water after being mopped - esp. in Granada. It is not clear where the water is coming from. perhaps you can see it differently in person - but the photo is not clear on that at all.
So I see both sides - NO ONE wants to be around black mold for a minute - AND I bet the host would certainly want to fix a problem - and not be forced to close up shop........ but first they have to know about it.
I would imagine if you called Airbnb and were very excited and pushing and demanding them as your post here reads you are steaming mad - they will quickly push back and shut you down and they have the power to reject.........I've seen and read about it happening alot. Maybe that happened.....maybe not.
If you can just look at it from another angle and talk with the host and CS customer service things might turn around. And just know the harder you push sometimes others will push back --- try flexing just alittle and see what happens......
You can only see it from your angle - for that I'm sorry - and if you get angry at me for my honesty, well, you can pick - you asked for hosts to voice in here. I'm hoping everyone learns here - us included as we have the opportunity every time.
P.s. they do read all your past history and any complaints or if any claims were ever filed. just FYI
unfortunately, there's so many guests working the system and scamming and that probably changes how they deal with claims these days. I'm talking about them NOT YOU here.... I totally get it you were completely concerned for your mother and yourself and your lungs........hope you can appreciate any of what I write - as it is NOT done with anything negative about it nor is my intent.
I wish you well. Clara
Clara, I appreciate your honest opinion. To respond, here's the thing: I, too, have hosted AirBnB before -- many times! -- and I would be absolutely remorseful and helpful if a guest brought something like black mold to my attention. I did contact the host first and foremost, politely and respectfully telling him that there was water damage and black mold causing a musty smell in the air, and letting him know that we would not be able to stay and would need to get another AirBnB immediately or else be left homeless for the night. We arrived around 5pm, and there was a very real risk that we'd not be able to find a place to stay that wasn't super expensive or far away -- it was carnival season, after all, and the city was busy for that and for International Women's Day marches the next days.
I only involved AirBnB once the host refused to give me any part of a refund, and claimed it was "burn." Anyone who's ever lived in a place with pipes or has been a homeowner knows what mold looks like -- where it happens, why it happens, and what it looks like. I'm not stupid nor blind: I know what black mold looks like compared to burn or random dirt.
So, I'd really like to know, from one host to another: should I, as a guest, with my elderly mother and our suitcases at my side in a place we'd never been before and in the evening, have had to wait around for this host to 1) respond to my message, 2) arrive at the apartment, 3) take a look at the mold and deny it's even mold, 4) presumably argue with me about it in person, 5) refuse me a refund and insist I stay in his dirty place? Or if he did agree that it was bad living conditions (which he wouldn't have, judging from our correspondence), I would have had to then scramble with the last couple hours of the day -- and my elderly mother and our suitcases -- to find, book, and transport ourselves to somewhere that was decent?
I've been a host too. There's no way I'd treat a guest this way. I'd be absolutely ashamed if my home were found to have black mold it in, and I'd be bending over backwards not to be kicked off AirBnB for good!
@Hillary-and-Adam0 OK.....the problem I have is your initial account very very detailed and EXACT ...photos, captioned and all.........says after you booked another place and went there and got settled in ....THEN you contacted the host and wanted a refund.
So your story seems to have changed. So that seems very unwise now.
Mold will NOT grow on plastic or PVC ----it grows on walls and wood. has to be porous surface!!!
the problem is:
you just didn't do the correct order.
IN all our agreements when we hosts or are a guest
we agree TOS....terms of service and that's where you unfortunately messed up - you didn't give the host an opportunity to correct a problem.... So you don't really want to hear what anyone says unless we are agreeing with YOU. No one wants anyone to be exposed to mold! no one ever!!!
I'm finished here as it seems you've fixed your mind and are the poor VICTIM......... I'm wasting my minutes. happy Airbnb's and whatever you do....
Just going to leave this here: https://moldblogger.com/can-mold-grow-on-plastic-and-if-so-is-there-a-way-to-clean-it/
I want to hear reasonable responses, not uninformed opinions about what's factually true.
Black mold cannot grow on plastic. I have actually researched it prior to posting so am not making thigs up. The white pipe appears to be plastic. The other spot has such over growth of “mold” that it could not have been contained to such small area at such level of infestation. I do not think it is mold. But of course I was not there
As for your point that it cannot be immediately irradiated: Yes, if it is mold, you are correct. However guests complain about all sorts of issues and most can be corrected therefore this policy is in place. All you had to do was send a quick message to the host, that’s it. You would not have to “wait in the street with my mother and our luggage while he hired professional cleaners to eradicate the mold and wash all the linens”. If the issue is not immediately fixable, she would have been refunded and relocated. But there is a policy to follow and perhaps you were not aware of it. Yet, this is your host so it would probably make sense to keep him posted of something as dramatic as you looking to immediately move out.
I don't know where you did your research, but you're wrong. Of course it can grow on plastic!
And please read my response to another message on this thread. I *did* try to contact the host and alert him to it, but I don't think it's fair to expect me to wait around for him to come to his moldy apartment simply to look at what's obviously mold and then force me to call AirBnB customer service to mediate what would then be an argument.
It was evening; we needed a new place to stay immediately. I don't see what's so hard for you and others to understand about that. This is not a matter of me simply not liking the place I booked; it's a matter of a place being listed/bookable despite having a major problem with air quality (i.e., black mold). So you think I should have taken precious time away from finding another place last minute for me and my mother, only to end with the same result -- that we couldn't stay in a place with black mold and black mold spores in the air?
"I don't see what's so hard for you and others to understand about that."
Erm, perhaps it's hard to understand because you completely back tracked on your story. Quote, from your original post:
"I immediately booked another AirBnB nearby (one that had "instant booking"), and we left. Once checked into the new AirBnB down the street, I sent the first place's host a polite message saying what we had found, and told him that unfortunately, we would not be able to stay there, and would like a refund."
And that Airbnb refused to refund you because you "didn't abide by the policy of contacting the host and letting him try to resolve the situation".
It's only after others have told you that you should have contacted the host first, that you've changed your story to say you did. If you hadn't been so specific about the order in which things happened in the first place, perhaps more people would believe you now.
Also, what is the point of the picture of the water? Was this water leaking from somewhere, as you don't mention that, or just a small amount of water on a tiled floor? If just the latter, then your inclusion of that photo could be another reason why the CS rep was not willing to side with you. It makes it seem like you were just looking for problems. Of course if the water was actually leaking from somewhere, that is a different matter, but if you keep changing your story, people are going to say "Cry wolf".
Ugh...okay, Murder-She-Wrote. Let me clarify -- I didn't realize I was expected to give every single instance of interaction as evidence to support what, to me, is an obviously righteous claim.
I wrote to the host first while still at his place, after we found the mold and water. I wrote him a brief message that basically said, politely, "I'm sorry, but we cannot stay here due to mold near the sleeping area."
As it was late and I was more concerned with having a roof over my and my elderly mother's heads that night than with "AirBnB policy on order of contact," etc., etc., we left the moldy apartment before waiting for a reply from the host. (And as it turns out, he denied up and down that it was mold anyway, so waiting for a reply wouldn't have helped anyway.)
Once safely moved in to our newly booked place, I then sent him a second message apologizing that things "didn't work out" (I could have ripped him a new one for having the indecency to rent out a moldy home!), letting him know I had booked another place, and asking -- given the circumstances -- that he consider a refund rather than have to involve AirBnB.
When he refused and got very defensive, I contacted AirBnB.
It's not "changing my story," and if it seems that way, it's simply because I didn't realize something was unclear.
It still doesn't make any sense. If you had contacted the host first, why did Airbnb deny your claim because you didn't contact him first (as you say in your initial post)?
Sorry, I'm not trying to interrogate you, but it's hard to give any suggestions when the story keeps changing.
As for the mould, I'm no expert and can't possibly say whether it is black mould or whether it is dangerous or can grow on plastic or not, but the small amount of water on the floor seems odd. I assume if this water made you investigate the undersink cabinet, then it must have seemed like the water was coming from there, but the photo doesn't show this at all. A photo clearly showing this would have better backed up your claim.
From what I understand, Airbnb is denying the refund not because I didn't contact him before leaving, but because I didn't give him the chance to fix the problem. Unfortunately, this was not a simple problem to fix, as any homeowner can tell you. So I was left with two options:
Option 1: Contact the host, let him know about the problem that will take days to resolve (knowing black mold and its clean-up process), and wait for him to decide that my claim is valid and only THEN find and book another place for me and my mother to stay, risking being left late at night with no place to stay, OR...
Option 2: Contact the host, let him know about the problem, and then find a substitute place immediately to ensure that my mother and I had a roof over our heads that night, and hope that the host would take responsibility for renting out a moldy home and do the right thing and offer a refund.
For my mother's and my safety and comfort, I chose Option 2.
@Huma0 I was thinking the same thing, if she had just sent a photo of the back of the cabinet airbnb may have refunded her. Including the close up of pipes with a little dirt and a random shot of water in the middle of the floor [which if I had to guess, I would feel pretty confident was left from a sloppy mop job done by the cleaners, as it looks too far from any cabinetry to be a 'leak']..and there is no evidence in the pipe shot that the pipes are leaking...these two other photos undercut the main claim of mold.
My apologies for the insufficient lighting in the water picture, your honor.
There was a small puddle coming from under the cabinet. Given the lighting and the angle, I did my best to show that the water was there.
It wasn't water left from a mop. It wasn't a burn. It wasn't dirt on the pipe. What's that saying about the simplest, most reasonable answer probably being the right one? Puddle of water coming from under kitchen cabinet + musty smell throughout apartment + black mold on back wall + water-warped shelf in cabinet (with black mold particles there too) = water damage and accompanying mold. It's not rocket science, for Christ's sake.