No longer hosting

[Sherri14]

We've had no issues this year, but with Airbnb continuing to be moving more and more to guests and the opportunity to sell our property, we're gone. Airbnb most recent idea that guests just need to close the door behind them and not have any checkout expectations was more than I could stand. Staying in a home is a privilege and if you can't pickup after yourself, taking out your trash, cleaning your dish, taking your food your brought, laying back the beds you used etc, then you should get a hotel.  I never had non-contact check-in, I had guests that there was supposed to be 12 and ended up with them sneaking 25, dogs etc, I wanted to see whom was renting my house. When homes get damaged Airbnb is getting harder to work with and have claims covered, their idea of normal wear is much different than mine. I wish all hosts the best.

[Huma0]

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@Sherri14 wrote:

Airbnb most recent idea that guests just need to close the door behind them and not have any checkout expectations was more than I could stand. Staying in a home is a privilege and if you can't pickup after yourself, taking out your trash, cleaning your dish, taking your food your brought, laying back the beds you used etc, then you should get a hotel. 

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Could you please tell me more about that? I am not aware of an Airbnb policy that says you can't have check out instructions, but maybe I have missed something...

I always do an in person check in and tour. As far as I am aware, there is no restriction on doing this. You do get the BOT telling you in the 'opportunities' section to offer self check in, but I just ignore those suggestions as a lot of them are stupid and irrelevant, e.g. telling me to specify cots or whatever when I have a child free listing! 

[Sherri14]

I never said it was policy, I stated it was a recent idea. Please be honest when commenting. **[Content removed in line with the Community Center Guidelines]

[Huma0]

@Sherri14 

Wow, you are super touchy. I wasn't judging you, just asking for more information because I was interested...

Okay, so in what way was it a recent idea?

[John5097]

@Sherri14 

@Huma0 quoted your sentence that said it was an idea so perfectly honest question. I'm curious also, and maybe you are seeing more of a trend where guest don't clean up like they should? Hosting large groups of 12 in a house would be more challenging for the reasons you cited. A lot of host and listing may just not be able to keep up with the increasing demands for cleaning. I'm hoping for more of an international perspective as Western guest and host have major cultural issues where it may become too much for some listings and host aren't even honest about the real issues because they are also part of the problem. 

[Huma0]

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@Sherri14 wrote:

**[Content removed in line with the Community Center Guidelines]

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Also, what a weird thing to say. Last time I checked, I lived in a democracy. I am not sure what point you are trying to make, but it sounds a bit xenophobic to me...

[John5097]

@Huma0 I'm seeing more host of Facebook groups very critical of host who expect guest to leave the place clean. They go crazy and say cleaning is part of the cleaning fee so guest can leave it messy. I think some or even most may not even be host, or they charge so much for cleaning they don't care. Or just being competitive on social media saying whatever to feel superior or popular at the moment. Anyway the trend may continue where guest leave the place more messy. 

But agree that its up to host to set expectations on everything. 

[Huma0]

@John5097 

I think the whole cleaning fee thing can be confusing to guests. I don't charge one myself (except for cleaning guest bedrooms during their stay, which is optional and very cheap). However, I have had many guests mention this issue when chatting about other places they have stayed.

A common mistake, I believe, is for a host to charge a (sometimes substantial) cleaning fee but, at the same time, tell the guests to "leave the place as you found it." Well, no guest is ever going to leave the place as they found it, so that is an unrealistic expectation, plus it makes the guest think that they are being charged for cleaning up for the next guest! 

I know that in some places, cleaning costs can be very expensive and often hosts are not even charging a fee that covers all of that. However, in other circumstances, there are hosts that keep their nightly rate very low to look more competitive in searches, then bump up the cleaning fee to compensate. I don't think that's a good tactic as it's likely to make the guest feel resentful, especially when they are then given a long list of stuff to do on check out.

At the end of the day, I think it's wise to try to find a balance, i.e. that sweet spot where you charge enough (be that incorporated into your nightly rate, or your cleaning fee) to not be out of pocket, but not so much that it encourages guests to expect maid service! Also, ask them to do what is reasonable, i.e. necessary on check out, not a long list of stuff just to make your turnaround easier. If one can't manage to get the place ready in the turnover time (with an average guest, not an unusually messy one), then the turnover time is too short!

[John5097]

@Huma0 I specifically commented on "messy:" guest. Guest who leave the place a mess beyond both the rates and cleaning fee.

But what do I know, I only have all 5 star reviews including cleaning and value. 

[Huma0]

@John5097 

Ah well, 'messy' is a word that's really open to interpretation. I wonder what these guests commenting on FB mean by that. 

I've had guests leave the rooms so tidy that you could barely tell they'd been there, guests who leave them in a shocking state, and everything in between. I even had one couple who left the room in what I would consider a disgusting state, so much so that I had to beg the next guests to check in later. I bet you almost every one of those guests thought they had left the room in a reasonable state. Even the disgusting couple left with big smiles on their faces and said how much they enjoyed their stay. They were not in the least bit embarrassed.

I stayed at an Airbnb last weekend. In the private feedback, the host thanked me for leaving the apartment so tidy and said she really appreciated it, but I was actually embarrassed because my mum got confused about the bins and chucked the coffee grinds all over the recycling right before we checked out. I messaged the host straight away to apologise, but I imagine some guests wouldn't care if they chucked the coffee grinds all over the floor.

I've had a few guests who have told me that a previous host got upset with the condition they left the airbnb in but they were really confused because they said they cleaned it before they checked out, even though there was a cleaning fee. It's impossible to know really if the host was expecting too much or the guests just couldn't see their own mess. A lot of people can't!

[John5097]

@Huma0 As I mentioned vast majority of guest are exceptionally clean. Because of this I've stayed with my discounted rates. Its a big deal to a lot of my guest because  a short get away or vacation is on a tight budget. I can't even keep count of the honeymoons and other special occasions. In part I also have more flexibility because I did all the work myself. Its a lot different than host charging as much as they can. The over all cost of cleaning is a factor in the rates regardless of its itemized fee or not. Thankfully vast majority of my guest understand this. Some guest can do other things as well, such as turn down the AC to 62 or keep washer/dryer running all the time, tamper with it, ruin the microwave or toaster, pour grease down the drains, ruin linens, bedding, etc. This frustration is how it starts. I end up communicating this with guest. For some they don't understand that cost of living and cost to maintain a listing in this area. Its just kind of sad that something that has worked so well for so many can be ruined by the few, and people who just pose as host on social media. I think a lot of host will just not be able to keep up with the demands. Yes there are host who ask guest to clean too much and that should be in the listing, but that's not what I'm talking about and don't do that. 

[Huma0]

@John5097 

I have a weekly cleaner come in and do the communal areas. It is an expense, especially as they have just put their prices up, but it's not the same as a host who has short stays, e.g. two nights, and professional cleaners come in for every turnover or uses laundry services. Those costs soon add up!

However, even if you are doing everything or most things yourself (I always do the guest bedrooms and keep the house clean in between the cleaner's visits), one should consider what one's time is worth, e.g. should you be paying yourself a wage for the hours you put into hosting?

And then there are the other things you mention (same things happen to me and are more of an ongoing issue than cleanliness problems) such as wasting energy and small, but frequent, damages.

I've never sat down and done a breakdown of what hosting actually costs in total (I hate accounting or anything like that). In a way, I almost don't want to know! 

[John5097]

@Huma0 Well my point is that the rates are based on how well guest take care of things. If there are more cleaning and damage to linens and appliances then of course rates need to be adjusted. It doesn't help when other people posing as host, some guest who got dinged for being messy, are promoting that a listing can be left messy that requires extra cleaning. As I said I base this on the vast majority of guest being very tidy. 

[Huma0]

@John5097 

I still don't know what the guests who are posting mean by 'messy'. Messy is subjective. 

The thing is, hosts seem to have very differing expectations RE what a guest should do when they check out. The OP mentions, "taking out your trash, cleaning your dish, taking your food your brought, laying back the beds you used etc." 

I would expect guests to clean their dishes or put them in the dishwasher, but I expect them to do this during their stay as it's a shared space and I can only think of one occasion when guests left a pile of dishes by the sink when they checked out. But, I don't expect them to do the other things mentioned above and I don't charge a cleaning fee.

None of the airbnbs I have stayed at asked guests to do any kind of cleaning on check out. There was only one that asked us to take out the trash, but nothing else. 

Then there are other airbnbs that have a long list of check out instructions, like putting linens in the washing machine and turning it on, or putting on the dishwasher etc. I am not criticising that. I think it's up to the host to choose what's workable for them. However, I can see why that confuses or annoys guests, especially when they are paying a cleaning fee. The host may have based that fee on guests doing these things, as it costs them more when guests do not, but the guest isn't going to think about that... They just think, "Hey, why am I doing the cleaning when I already paid for it?"

[John5097]

@Huma0 

Thats why the ratings are very helpful. Host rate the guest on cleanliness and likewise guest rate host on both cleanliness and value. So if a host has all 5* ratings they understand. Likewise if they guest has all 5* ratings that's also a good indicator. 

So my guest like both good value and very clean place. The rates need to reflect the cost of cleaning as that is part of it. 

As a host I'm entitled to set my own rates which includes cleaning cost. There is even a check mark that host pay a living wage for cleaning. As I mentioned I'm talking about normal cleaning. The last discussion we had about this I mented that I just ask guest to put used dishes in the dishwasher and don't have to sweep floor or take out trash. 

A recent guest also moved a heavy lawn chair across the yard and didn't put it back. Not sure its even worth mentioning but some people are just inconsiderate. I'm a host with guest every day of the year and my guest reviews speak for themselves. I try to look out for my guest because that's how I am. 

Sorry but super busy lately. Sorry this has turned into a huge waste of time, where host are promoting guest being messy. Whatever.