Refund for power outage?

[Pete69]

Thankfully I haven't yet activate my listing because we had a power outage in my area from 2 AM to 11 AM. This had me thinking what if this happened when a guest was staying.

Would you issue a full or partial refund?

What if there was a moderate outage of just one or two hours? Knock off 10%?

[Sarah977]

@Jessica2580  Yes, I do pretty much every single thing on the list I wrote, every time I have a new guest checking in. So your assumption is totally incorrect. And I don't even charge a cleaning fee. But I do have a 3 night minimum stay and most of my guests stay an average of a week-10 days. And almost all my guests leave their space clean and tidy.

Your idea that the things on Debra's list happen only once a year is ludicrous. Sure, a host might not have to touch up dings and scuffs every time, or wash all the windows, but then they will be doing other things that only need to be done once every two weeks.

I don't understand your last sentence above. No one expects a guest to clean what's on those lists we posted. That's the host's job. We just expect a guest to clean up their personal mess, it's basic respect- wash their dishes, bag up their garbage, don't leave the stovetop swimming in grease. How long does that take if you aren't a slob to start with? 10-15 minutes? 

Sounds like you have been staying in different kinds of Airbnbs than what most of the regular hosts on this forum run, and that your friends who are hosts don't clean like we do.  Consider that they are not necessarily representative of the average conscientious host.

And the cost of a cleaner varies greatly depending on the area of the world or country.

[Jessica2580]

Some of the statements in this last post contradict what you already said. I was replying this way for 2 reasons.

1. You stated that you would be less willing to refund someone who experienced an outage based on the cleanliness of the place when they left (which infers that you expect them to clean it/ you apply a monetary value to it and are willing to reduce a refund based on this). Which is messed up, honestly. Also, you DO charge a cleaning fee. I looked up your listings and every dang one has a cleaning fee, some up to $125.

2. You state that you feel the guest cleaning is necessary and that the cleaning fee should be "cleaning for your arrival" by which you mean cleaning to fill the gap between what the guest cleaned and what remains to be cleaned....again implying that guests should clean these things and this is expected of them/ the cleaning fee is not meant for the cleaning of the entire apt.

So, yeah, a lot of hypocrisy and backtracking here. Guests should only be expected to: leave with all their personal belongings, bag up the trash, rinse and place dishes in the sink, and pile up towels and linens in one location for ease of laundry duties. The rest is on the host and that is especially the case if they charge a cleaning fee that is high.

[Sarah977]

@Jessica2580  I don't understand why you are misinterpreting things. You seem to be responding to me, but as you haven't tagged, I'm not sure.

1. I don't know whose listing you looked at, but I most definitely do not charge any cleaning fee. I list a private room/private bath in my shared home. I have one listing only.

I never said I would be less willing to refund a guest depending on how they cleaned. My post further up was just pointing out that a guest has a better chance of the  host treating them fairly if the guest has been respectful, that's all. If a guest is expecting the host to do the right thing, the guest should be doing the right thing, too, no? That holds true in any walk of life.

2.??? No, I didn't say the cleaning should be considered to be cleaning before your arrival, I said you could think of it like that, because that might help you better understand. How you interpreted that to mean that the previous guest should have done all the housework is puzzling. It meant the exact opposite.

Let's say the previous guest is a respectful person and did what you say you do (which is all I would ever expect a guest to do)- washed his dishes and bagged up his garbage. Would you expect that to be good enough for your arrival and stay at the house? Would you be okay with unwashed floors, an unclean bathroom, hair in the shower stall, something spilled in the fridge, dusty shelves, the previous guest's used tissues and earplugs in the bedside drawer, etc.? All the things a guest is not expected to clean? Of course you wouldn't, nor should you be. That is the host's job. To make sure everything is clean for every guest.

What you say in your last paragraph is exactly what I have been saying. Guests clean up their dirty dishes, don't leave the place strewn with garbage, put the soiled linens wherever the host has indicated. The rest is the host's job. And what the cleaning fees are for. 

You started out asking what the cleaning fee was for if guests did those few things we seem to both agree on that are reasonable. We gave you lists of what the cleaning fee normally covers. What's the problem? 

There's no hypocrisy or backtracking. You just seem to be misunderstanding or wanting to be argumentative.

[Tracey259]

We have had our Airbnb for over a year and half.  Early this morning was the 1st time the power has ever gone out (storm), as of tonight there is still no ETA.  Our guests will be checking out tomorrow.  I am feeling very bad regarding the inconvenience, should I offer a refund or wait until they ask for one?  Does this in any effect your status if they are given a refund?

[Patricia2138]

We had a planned hydro outage 7am to 11 am ...four hours ..I offered the cleaning fee and a late check out ...everyone happy

[Kevin1056]

It's happened twice I didn't give the guests anything... But also the guests really didn't make it an issue. 

If they made it an issue that's another thing.

[Danielle476]

I'll be a voice of dissent and say that yes, guests should be given a partial or full refund *depending on the circumstances.*

Last year my family stayed at a cabin that experienced a power outage for over 24 hours.  We lost heat (no fireplace), water and obviously the electricity.  We had our two young kids so it made it an absolute nightmare.  The host wasn't overly helpful or concerned, to be honest.  When I contacted him to ask about flashlights, candles, etc., he answered that he was 'at work' and would call me later.

If you have a property that may experience power outages, I think at the very LEAST you should have an ample supply of water jugs, batteries, flashlights/lanterns and candles.  If you own a property that experiences them frequently, this should be made clear in your listing so that any potential guest can decide for themselves if it's a risk they want to take.  Personally, I would buy a generator if I owned such a property.  Power outages are obviously not a host's fault, but how they handle them is.  Our priority should always be our guests' comfort and safety.  If one of my guests experiences something that affects their trip negatively, I usually offer a partial refund as a gesture of good faith.  Yes, I have bills to pay too, but to me it's just the cost of doing (good) business.

[Greg89]

 I'm on the horn with Airbnb right now due to california rolling power outages because my guests are requesting a full refund. This is happening all around california.

Airbnb told me that I have an hour to resolve "the situation". I asked what situation that was, since I offered half off. They said "since there is no power, would you be able to provide an alternative source of power, since it is a very essential part of the listing as a lot of your amenities would depend on having power in the listing. If there would be no alternative source of power to be provided, then we would have to cancel the reservation".

I think that's kind of crappy given this happened last minute and I offered half off and my heat, running water are all working. I also have niceities such as oil lamps, fireplace, etc that they can use to make the situation nicer. I offered them 1/2 off if they stay and they decided to call airbnb (expletive here) instead of continuing the conversation with me. Kids today- Me me me.

[Jadan0]

I would simply offer an apology and a discount for any future stays, or a small refund for their current stay! 

[Anna-Marie20]

I'm both a host and a guest and am really surprised to see some of these responses. If you own a property, and the power is out for more than 12 hours, I feel you are absolutely required to issue at least a partial refund for a guest. Am posting this because we're getting ready to head to the coast and just received an e-mail from our host that was very informative, but not very guest-friendly. Said to "prepare accordingly", and puts the onus on the guest to bring flashlights, etc. And recommends "not overly packing perishable food in the event of a power outage", and also tells the guest to call the power company in the event of an outage, and that all cancellation policies will remain in effect in the event of inclement weather. I'm checking on the policy specifics of everything with Airbnb, but have to say that note is enough to make me never rent or recommend this place as the posture seems prematurely host-focused and defensive To all hosts - you are running a business. If you were renting a home for a longer length of time, your tenant would not be required to pay if they didn't have essentials such as electricity or running water. If you don't want to have to sometimes lose money for things that are out of your control, you're in the wrong business IMO.

[Ann72]

@Anna-Marie20  That sounds sketchy and uncalled-for - what are you paying for the privilege of being treated like that?  🙂

My places are subject to power outages, so I have generators.  And flashlights everywhere.  Coolers.  Gallon jugs of water.  Etc.  Would never make the guest feel the slightest bit responsible for things that, although I can't control, are my responsibility to plan for.

Last July, as I got off the plane in a foreign country, I had multiple texts from my housekeeper that not only had the power gone out all over the peninsula, both generators were out - one because it was plagued by ants.  (Welcome to Maine!)  I checked with both sets of guests and they were entirely unconcerned and said they were enjoying reading in the peace and quiet.  Lucky I had such nice guests.  Power came back on in a few hours and all was well.  I didn't offer any kind of refund because nobody seemed at all bothered.  But I have offered recompense in other stressful situations.

[Rebecca181]

For me, it depends on the impact on the guest. For some guests, it is an adventure and no big deal - I would still offer a small refund or gift certificate of some kind, just to ensure good will. On the other hand, even a small outage can be very disruptive and disappointing to some. For example, I had a couple here and the woman had been planning this 'surprise' weekend for her fiance for months. The transformer blew and we lost power for a few hours, including to the guest hot-tub. She was VERY disappointed. I decided to offer a full refund in this case. She still knocked a star off because the power went out (something beyond my control) so I learned my lesson: Unless they demand a full refund and I choose to issue it, I will only offer a partial refund in future. 

[Debra300]

@Anna-Marie20, @Ann72, @Rebecca181,

I have listings in places that seasonally have hurricanes, tropical storms, and thunderstorms.  Personally, I think that the host sent @Anna-Marie20 a very appropriate message considering that Hurricane Isaias is making its way to the US southeastern coast.  If I were still going to take the trip, it is incumbent on me to ensure that I pack flashlights, batteries, radios,  backup chargers, bottled water and have food provisions that could get my family through a few days without power.

I would offer a discount for a power outage/utility interruption only if: 1) I was the cause, e.g., forgot to pay the bill, blew the main circuit and the hardware store is closed; or, 2) I didn't/couldn't provide essential services, e.g., generator/pump was faulty, I forgot to get fuel for the generator/filter for the pump, batteries in LED lanterns were drained.

Ironically, since it is storm season, my husband is working on a quick connect plug for our generator (we don't have a whole house generator that automatically switches on during an electricity outage).  In the event there is a power outage that is longer than a couple of hours, the generator can be plugged into a sub-panel with breakers for essential electrical items: the refrigerator, the router/modem, ceiling lights, and sockets in the kitchen and main living space.  This surely beats having long-a$$ extension cords snaking through the space, and leaving the door/window cracked open so the cords can connect to the generator.

For my guesthouse in St. Lucia, I have it written under the Other Things to Note section, I state the following:

"This is a small island, so responses to issues regarding utilities or other services are not available 24 hours a day, and may take more than a day to resolve.

When the island water service is interrupted, water is supplied by our on-site tanks, and the pressure will be less than what's provided by the water company."

After reading this that, in an attempt to right-set guest expectations, I am going to update my house rules to list exactly what services will be available after a major disruption to utility service, and their responsibilities to conserve during those periods.

Thanks to all of you, because you all always make the lightbulb come on when I am wandering in the dark.

I am going to ask my fellow hosts with properties in tropical areas what their policies are for these types of situations.  @Sarah977, I know that you contributed to this discussion last year, but I didn't read the thread.   @Fred13, you have your own island.  What do you two say to your guests about utility service interruptions?  Under what circumstances do/would your provide a refund?

[Rebecca181]

@Debra300  I would absolutely be using your line of reasoning if I lived in a tropical area. I neglected to mention that I discuss storm possibilities and power loss in my House Manual and guests do have most of what they need to have a good time. If I were a guest visiting a tropical area I'd know the risks I'm taking and wouldn't expect the host to refund me for weather issues or power loss unless it was related to host negligence.

[Fred13]

@Debra300 Your post are always so inquisitive, you obviously like to learn, wonderful attribute.

   The reality of our island is that it is off-grid to start with. Everything runs on solar anyway.

   So we are not dependent on anything that happens on the mainland, whose power varies greatly here in Belize. Also, the power company announces 4-12 hr power interruptions all the time on a moments notice; being in the mainland during summer in the tropics, imagine if fans, A/C, etc stops unexpectedly for unknown hours. 

   I now do not  'warn' my guests that something may go wrong, I use to, I don't now. I just make sure it doesn't by having backup to the backup, besides  OR I can be at the island in 20 minutes.

   Nowadays we do not have to even go there; all they have to do now is push a button IF the power goes off (fried inverter or batteries drained) and presto, everything is back on. The generator we use ($2000US) is a Honda 3000is inverter type (noise factor 48db (normal conversation 55db+), which is the quietest generator on Earth; meaning IF the generator has to be on, they would hardly hear it.

   IF I was in the mainland, I would have such a back up generator on site, already hooked up, and all the guest has to do is press a car-key clicker, throw a switch (grid > shore)  and power is on. It is already wired to the house. Surprisingly most of my guests are quite handy and on the few occasions over 5 years they have ran the generator (3+ days of cloud cover) they didn't even mention it till I pick them up days later.

   This scenario then would make you look like a hero, and simply bypasses the local yokel power company. It also eliminates the need to lower their expectations; but upon arrival you could always say: "Its the tropics, power can be inconsistent, but we got you covered". No need to mention refunds.

P.S. The only generator type to use for such a situation is an inverter generator (low noise), the standard type (combustion type) are cheaper but unbearable, noise wise. https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/inverter-generators.