Unexpected parties

[Kristen383]

We are new to hosting with 1 month under our belt.  Out of 7 guests so far, 4 have now had some kind of party.  I get sick to my stomach watching the "just 2 couples for the weekend" walk up to our ring doorbell with balloons and discuss how to block our camera to sneak the guests in.  Then left with a house full of weed smoke, damage, and garbage.   I was hoping there would be better experiences than this.  

We have tightened up our expectations of having prior reviews and raised our prices.  But in doing that the inquiries go to zero.  

Do you think this is pandemic related since there aren't events to go to?  How do others vet this situation?   Getting quite frustrated with the quality of people taking advantage of our home. 

Last guest we were able to collect on our security deposit, but I wouldn't expect that to be as easy each time.    Can Airbnb do more to curtail this behavior?

[Elaine701]

@Colleen253 

Yes, you're right. Prevention is key. 

But even with all that, what do you if you catch them? Call the police? Under normal conditions, unless they're doing something illegal, the police will just call it a domestic dispute and tell you to sue them. 

Under lockdown law, however, there's a high likelihood that we, the owners would get saddled with the fines, because we are a fixture in the community, and easy to enforce. A bunch of foreigners having an illegal party would require opening a more far-flung safari, so why bother, when you can just fine the owners and let them deal with it? 

And obviously, it doesn't matter what Airbnb thinks. They don't want anything to do with stuff like that. 

So, yes, perhaps we need to start being a bit more nazi in our house rules and install cameras and tell guests we're watching, if stuff like this is going to continue, even if it's not very enforceable. We could take a hit in bookings from the guests we desire the most, but I suppose that's just another risk we'll have to take. 

Thanks. 

[Helen3]

During lockdown UK hosts are asking for written evidence guests are coming to a hosts area for work/moving home etc

its a good way to weed out the liars @Elaine701 

How were  your latest guest able to party for three days without it being picked up by the camera at your gate. Do you not check them when your guests check in and periodically during their stay? 

[Elaine701]

Leisure travel is still allowed here, but those arriving have to have a verified negative PCR test no older than 72 hrs. However you're not supposed to have congregations of more than 6 persons not legally co-domiciled. They booked 6 pax. That's perfectly legal. Should we begin to routinely accuse guests of violating this, with no particular justification? 

Oh, we knew they were partying. We could see that they were consuming lots of power all night. We could see that the gate was opening frequently.

But we don't tell our guests how long they can stay up at night, or when they can eat or watch TV, or when they can leave or return, or whether they can drink, or what they can drink. Or if they can have sex or tell dirty jokes. Guests aren't allowed to smoke in the house, though. If that's any consolation. 

Besides, there isn't much we can do about it. Call the police? Is that what you would do? 

Yes, they caused damage, which is rare, even when guests have clandestine parties. Usually they're just messy, which is a risk we all take. But these guys crossed the line. We made a claim, but you know how that went. 

[Colleen253]

@Elaine701  "what do you if you catch them".

You have to be prepared to get in there and shut it down yourself. You say the guest booked for 6, which is legal. Fine, no problem. But as soon as they let the 7th guest in, things changed. It's at that point you need to be on it, rather than let it escalate to a full on party. But far better to make efforts to prevent that type of guest from getting a foot in the door in the first place. I doubt the guests you are trying to attract will be put off. Be thoughtful and strategic in how you go about it.

[Elaine701]

Well, I agree, but in order to "go in and shut them down" you really need justification. Why have we violated their privacy by bathing in? Because they're staying up late? Because they had some friends over? Where do you draw the line? 

Mallorca isn't just a popular European vacation destination. Lots of Europeans actually live here. And many guests who book our villa are regular visitors to the island. They have friends and family here. They're regular people, families, nice people. Sociable. Nothing dubious at all. And precisely the guests we love to host. 

Let's say we impose a new "house rule" That it is not allowed to have more persons on the property than have been booked for (by the way, in the high season, we have a flat rate, not by number of persons, so that would be difficult to enforce). But that would effectively rule out many of the very guests we want. 

I think the most intelligent approach is simply to be better at vetting guests. And that's really the heart of my concerns here. Traditionally, until say, last summer, guests were pretty transparent and were just who they claimed to be, and we could take them at face value. And it's been a pretty harmonious relationship 99% of the time. We've thoroughly enjoyed our journey. 

Suddenly now, we're getting a steady stream of inquiries that smell funny at first, and end up stinking in the end.

We are currently declining more inquiries on a regular basis than in any time in our entire history in this business (started in 2008) And even then... Some slip through. It's concerning. 

Having said that, there are still lots of delightful guests, and we surely don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. 

I think it may just be the new norm, and we'll just have to be prepared to decline more and approve less. Unfortunately. 

[Sarah977]

@Elaine701  You can state that no unregistered visitors are allowed without pre-approval from the host. That way you can decide based on whether these are just guests with family in the area getting together for family dinners and hang out time or bad guests looking to party.

Those who don't bother to ask are then breaking house rules. Respectful guests will ask "We'd like to have four family members over for dinner tomorrow night. Would that be okay?" That also will give you an opportunity to make it clear that it's fine as long as it's not loud and it is indeed only four.

Loud partying, sneaking in more people than they booked for, disturbing the neighbors, are quite valid justifications for booting guests out. I don't understand why you keep equating these things with "staying up late" and such. 

There's a big difference between two couples chatting until 2AM over some wine, with soft jazz playing in the background, and party animals who couldn't care less if they keep the neighbors awake and trash your house.

[Elaine701]

Since when does violating house rules carry any penalty? We could sue them, but that would be pretty expensive. 

Really, the only recourse is to write it in our review of the guest. And we do. It might make but more difficult to book other under that name, but they can always just create a new account.

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Kristen383 , I'm not sure if or how Airbnb will kill the partiers, it seems they rarely pay out damages and deposit is a joke so they really have less interest and little to gain in limiting  their collections by choking out the revelers.  This now brings the light the true nature of our business (Inn Keeping) that hasn't changed in centuries, a measurable amount of people do bad things in our spaces when they celebrate and or travel that they would not do in their moms, dorm, apartments or homes and its best not to let them stay if you can help it. 

Hoteliers have substituted the "Keep" with staff that are ready to boot scumbags.   Unattended Lodging provision has become a very challenging thing now that everyone including party punks has discovered the value of renting a place for 100 and paying for only 2.   Cameras can help but they do interfere with privacy and it is probably better to not have folks staying in your place you cant trust to begin with.   I think the only way to limit exposure for off site hosts is to raise your price, require lots of reviews and accept them only on a case by case basis.   Better Bookings not more bookings, stay well, JR

[Fred13]

An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.  Every host should do everything in their power to prevent things from happening and then not have to chase Airbnb having to prove what happened, police calls, neighborhood issues, timely filing, counter bad reviews, etc etc. The host must look after their place, if they can't hire 'Guido the Enforcer'', but someone has to.

@Elaine701 Question for you. During winter when price is $229 and in summer when it is $481, do you get different types of people. See a pattern? Just curious. The number (8) is a borderline number by the way, with the young it starts making them think of 'party'.

[Elaine701]

Already had the price discussion on another thread, but yes, of course there's a difference. Not only different class of guest (often, not necessarily majority) but the lower paying guests are far more likely to produce less than top ratings, no matter how perfect the accommodation or how much hospitality they're showered with. 

Also, we have a completely different pricing model in the low season. In the high season, flat rate - number of PAX irrelevant. In low, season, we have a base price for 2 pax, and incremental price for each additional person. Also, we do indeed charge extra for many amenities in  the off season. In the high season it's all included in the price. 

[Fred13]

Got cha. Sure enough, the higher the price the more dependable the guests. I know it is a struggle with the 'party' scene, it is a constant battle. We all have struggled with it. A lot of my guests do party, the difference is because is an island and they get to go in my boat, so I get to control the numbers easily. 😉

BTW, I grew up in Majorca (1-15 years old), so when I retired (2nd time) where I end up? - the Caribbean. The sea, is all about the sea.

[Elaine701]

@Fred13 

Thanks. Yes, well it sounds like you're on your game, Fred. 

Mallorca is a special place, and that's what makes it so popular. For better or for worse. 

It's a little unusual that someone who grew up in Mallorca would spell it "Majorca". I take it you're British? 

Belize seems to suit you. I hope it continues 🙂 

[Sarah977]

@Elaine701  "But we don't tell our guests how long they can stay up at night, or when they can eat or watch TV, or when they can leave or return, or whether they can drink, or what they can drink. Or if they can have sex or tell dirty jokes."

Those things have nothing to do with guests throwing parties, having more people in the house than they booked for, or disturbing the neighbors. If you aren't prepared to take charge and halt those activities when they are happening and evict the guests if necessary, you can hardly complain about it afterwards.

Yes, many hosts need to call the police for party guests. Or at least have some friends or family members who are willing to come along for backup or protection or being a witness if the guests become aggressive.

[Elaine701]

Well, we don't, sorry.

We don't have a  rulebook covering every possible thing a guest can or cannot do. We don't sit outside with binoculars controlling whether or not they break any of that long list of rules, nor come storming in with the power or gate log, interrogating them about why they stayed up till after midnight, nor why someone opened the gate at 1:33am. In the possibility they might be having fun (also against house rules). 

The point is, that's not what taking a holiday is about. It might be for some people, though. But they can always book an all inclusive in some packed hotel, and be told when to eat, when to go see the flamingo show, when to go to the bar, when to go to breakfast... 

But that's not us. And even if it were, it wouldn't attract the quality of guest we prefer.

There's better ways to manage this than becoming a nazi camp. 

[Sarah977]

@Elaine701  You're being ridiculous. The hosts who have given you advice here don't have some endless list of house rules, watch guests with binoculars, dictate curfews when guests are allowed to be out until, or how late they are allowed to stay up.

If you are unwilling to crack down on party guests who disturb the neighborhood and disrespect your home, and are going to push back on every suggestion you get from other hosts, why did you bother to post here?