Full Refund In PANDEMIC Situation?

[Giedre-and-Andre0]

Here a word to all Complainer:

I live in NYC and let's face it:
There will be no tourists coming in for the next few months (in best case).

I refunded every reservation (and blocked the calendar)
until the end of April, and I'm prepared that the rest of

the year will be fully refunded and going to ZERO...

I did very well last few years,
and NO, ITS NOT AIRBNB'S FOULT,
people can't fly, going out or even leave the house!

IT IS NOT a change of Airbnb's policy, it is EXACTLY as I signed up:
Travel restrictions = Refund
Deadly Pandemic = Refund
POSTER CHILD SITUATION OF extenuating circumstances situation!!!!
NOTHING CHANGED.

NOT ONCE I TRIED TO CALL OR CONTACT BnB LAST 2 WEEKS.

Once Airbnb boosted my business going from 0 to 100 in 2 weeks
by providing a genius model and worldwide outreach to billion of guests.

For the few $$$ per booking taking from me as a host, THEY OWE ME NOTHING!!!
As long they have 10-Thousands of people on payroll,
I don't have ANY problems with there current policy,
and I don't care if they keep a small service fee or not!!!

I'm still on the lucky end, we have other sources of income,
BUT around us, restaurants, airlines and small businesses will going out of business.

BUT YES, I agree, we losing money: IT SUCKS!!!

And still, our own decision to be in Guest/Tourist Industry
with all the fun, money to earn AND risk to take..!

WEE ALL WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS,
IF Airbnb LOSES THERE REPUTATION WITH GUESTS DURING THIS CRISIS!!!
LET THEM DEFEND THE BRAND, OTHERWISE: THAT'S IT FOR ALL OF US !

And OF COURSE: I KNOW Airbnb is/was not perfect at all, the review system needs to be improved...
I KNOW! I guess NOBODY IS PERFECT 😉

Stay Safe,
Greetings from Brooklyn, NY

[Donald28]

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@Michael4841 wrote:

Hi @Sarah977  I’m a host who doesn’t own multiple properties. I’m an artist who relies on guest bookings to actually pay the rent. 

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Sorry Mike but that is YOUR problem not airbnbs. You rented an apt that is more than you can afford on your artist salary. Now it's biting you in the butt and you're blaming it on airbnb. That's not fair.  Move to a cheaper area and get a place you can afford on your artists salary. 

It is not airbnbs responsibility to supplement "creative people" *inappropriate comment removed* lives. 

[Sarah977]

@Donald28  I would have thumbs upped your response to Micheal here, were it not for the "slacker" comment, which was uncalled for. Who do you think all those visuals and visual effects in your arcade games were designed by? Artists and creative people. Our world would be a pretty dull place in a lot of ways without art and artists. 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Sarah977 

"slacker" comment,

I agree.

@Donald28 

[Donald28]

I agree.

While true, my comment was uncalled for. 

[Sandra126]

@Michael4841 , @Donald28 , I'm an artist slacker as well! Hooray, I'm thrilled to be living the life I chose. Thanks to Airbnb it was been with plenty of cream lately, and now I will live off savings til it's over. In fact, making art about the experience. 

My definition of artist slacker is one who works every hour there is. All the best, Michael, you will get through this! Upward and on!

[Juan63]

Man, all that monetary privilege and it didn't get you decency..lol 

[Erin443]

Wow. The schadenfreude is strong on this thread. I'm a little nauseated to hear all the self-righteous glee from those of you telling people they have no right to a nice home and that they should downsize and move. And boo-hoo to those who might have to sell their homes? This is so startlingly mean-spirited and reeks of jealousy. During a time when we should be supporting each other, your pleasure in the misfortune of those you consider wealthier than yourself is deeply disappointing. 

[Patricia55]

@Erin443 

Erin, I don't know to whom your comment is directed, but I'm pretty sure it's not schadenfreude you're seeing here, nor jealousy... I think it's more a reaction to those VERY entitled hosts who think Airbnb owes them a living, even in these incredibly difficult circumstances.
Maybe we could offer our support to those who are suffering from the virus and dying?

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

I'm pretty much in agreement with @Gerhard4 

I lowly, only have one place I let and the impact felt by the guest centric blanket policy of Airbnb on one property will be greatly amplified in a multi listing like @Gerhard4 's. Airbnb will have made far more from his listing than a room in a shared house will ever make, he is a far more valuable asset yet still, they shaft him.

He has no case to answer to, he's as much a victim as a Home Share host but to a far more greater degree. 

The Airbnb policy is blanket, it does not accommodate individual Hosts' or guests' circumstances and it is not being applied honestly. The only thing it IS doing is penalising ALL hosts. 

[Sarah977]

@Michael4841  I understand, but my point is that many people these days have been living beyond their means and all it takes is for one piece of the puzzle to fall apart and they are instantly in dire straits. It's one thing to earn money being self-employed where you have control over your own money, but quite another to rely on receiving a steady guaranteed income when you are dealing with a company that has control and can decide not to pay you if they think the circumstances warrant it. And it says clearly in the TOS that they maintain the right to do so and we all agreed to that policy by listing with them. I'm certainly not saying I agree that they should have that much power, but it's the reality.

And why my suggestion that 20-25% would have been fair, as opposed to 50%? Because when guests pay for a booking, the exchange is that there will be a service provided for their payment. If they receive no service, I don't think they can be expected to still pay 50% of their booking. Whereas allowing the hosts to retain 20% is an amount I think any reasonable guest would have found fair, and while it might not pay your rent, it would help, and for those hosts who employ cleaners and other staff, would have allowed them to continue to pay these folks, who also have families to feed, rather than have to let them go.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Sarah977 

1)It's one thing to earn money being self-employed where you have control over your own money,  but quite another to rely on receiving a steady guaranteed income when you are dealing with a company that has control and can decide not to pay you if they think the circumstances warrant it.

2) And it says clearly in the TOS that they maintain the right to do so and we all agreed to that policy by listing with them.

So this troubled me. Outside of any written agreement or updated policy details, the closest I could find in the TOS relating to anything like this was these:

1) 1.2 As the provider of the Airbnb Platform, Airbnb does not own, create, sell, resell, provide, control, manage, offer, deliver, or supply any Listings or Host Services, (they don't control anything our money isn't mentioned).

2) (The right not to pay the Host). Couldn't find anything.

Updates to Extenuating Circumstances don't mention any of this, in fact, Extenuating Circumstances are specific on booking dates, and the extension of those amended extenuating circumstances to specific future dates. Airbnb are upholding cancellations NOT adhering to those dates, both future dates and past dates without taking into account regional restrictions. Thats illegal.

Can you point to the relevant TOS you refer to please?

[Sarah977]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0  Sorry I never got back to you on this, it flew under my radar.

9.5 In certain circumstances, Airbnb may decide, in its sole discretion, that it is necessary to cancel a pending or confirmed booking and initiate corresponding refunds and payouts. This may be for reasons set forth in Airbnb's Extenuating Circumstances Policy or (i) where Airbnb believes in good faith, while taking the legitimate interests of both parties into account, this is necessary to avoid significant harm to Airbnb, other Members, third parties or property, or (ii) for any of the reasons set out in these Terms.

Now, one could certainly argue that they didn't take the legitimate interests of both parties into account, but basically, this part of the TOS gives them blanket authority to issue refunds as they see fit. 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Sarah977 

In my opinion I would have to disagree as that part of the TOS relates to Airbnb initiated cancellations after firstly providing the terms for Guest initiated cancellation, then Host initiated cancellation.

" In certain circumstances, Airbnb may cancel a pending or confirmed booking on behalf of a Host or Guest and initiate corresponding refunds and payouts."

As you point out, even in this case of an Airbnb initiated cancellation the legitimate interests of  both parties need to be taken into account too. The overriding of Host's cancellation terms in this case is not considering Host's interests at all.

The paragraph concludes:

"You may appeal a cancellation by contacting... "

As a point of interest I did notice however that our TOS are completely different. Here's 9.5 European:

9.5 In certain circumstances, Airbnb may cancel a pending or confirmed booking on behalf of a Host or Guest and initiate corresponding refunds and payouts. This may be for reasons set forth in Airbnb's Extenuating Circumstances Policy or for the reasons set out in Section 15 of these Terms. Where Airbnb cancels a booking, Airbnb will, notify Members and provide the reasons for such a measure, unless such notification would (i) prevent or impede the detection or prevention of fraud or other illegal activities, (ii) harm the legitimate interests of other Members or third parties, or (iii) contravene applicable laws. You may appeal a cancellation by contacting customer service.

[Matthew1072]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 I think the issue is with your definition:

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2) (The right not to pay the Host). Couldn't find anything.

Pay the host for what? You have not rendered a service in the event that a guest cancels a reservation, or when Airbnb cancels the reservation (in some cases).  Maybe you can argue that you took a few minutes to send the guest a kind message, to let them know you're excited that they're coming.  But realistically, the upfront legwork has been done by Airbnb.  Their developers who have created and maintained the platform, which allows your to market your home for no charge, the support service that they offer at no charge has been paid for upfront by Airbnb.  You have agreed to host a guest, but that's it. 

Under normal circumstances when you host you don't receive payment until after the first night of a guest's stay has been completed.  I don't see exactly what it is people feel entitled to?

Also, I would encourage you to treat this as your own business.  If you had your own vacation rentals website that you managed, would you enforce a 100% or even 50% cancellation policy?  If you're answer is yes, I think you could be sure never to see those guests, whose money you took, back on your platform.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Matthew1072 

I think the issue is with your definition:

What definition ?

Treating this as a business, as you suggest will require any booking to have Terms and Conditions attached. In this case it ensures exclusive use of a commodity for a period and is no longer negotiable unless both parties agree to change the contract. The commodity is there, ready for the contracted use.

Payment date related to arrival is irrelevant as long as payment is made. Ideally, it should be before arrival, and at the point of booking and on the point of the balance being paid. Any order for accommodation with agreed Terms and Conditions is a CONTRACT. This CONTRACT defines cancellation terms and those need to be adhered to. Whether it takes 1 minute or a month to make the contract is irrelevant.

But realistically, the upfront legwork has been done by Airbnb.  Their developers who have created and maintained the platform, which allows your to market your home for no charge, the support service that they offer at no charge has been paid for upfront by Airbnb.

Based on me contracting a booking through them they create a compounded income from Guests payments for Host's facilities. That is what Airbnb propose to me as a host. I don't charge Airbnb for building my facilities or interest on my investment or my mortgage payments or maintenance or services or local taxes, like wise I owe them nothing for their upfront work or their support service, those are there like the bricks are there in my walls and have an ongoing cost because of their existence. Together the proposition to guests provides an income based on the contract.

I do have my own vacation rental website. I do enforce a 100% cancellation policy, or a 50% cancellation policy, whichever happens to be applicable. It is agreed fully with guests that these are the conditions  I will allow them to rent and it  is written and agreed in a CONTRACT as it is written and agreed here on AIRBNB and on VRBO and on TripAdvisor and on BookingCom... everywhere. On my direct booking CONTRACT in the cancellation paragraph I state that in order to mitigate any travel related issues of the guest, they are advised to arrange travel insurance. Some do. If they do not, then their losses are fully described.