A family in Chile has got nothing to eat

[Ute42]

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In another thread a rather sad story has been developing over the past couple of days. This is a long story, I'm cutting it down as good as I can.

Monika in Chile is renting 3 places through airbnb in Chile but she doesn't get paid by airbnb. She started reporting about her problem on sept. 19, adressing  @Catherine-Powell  , to no avail.

Due to COVID she had to close her places on march 20 and reopened mid of august. Monika did get paid from airbnb untill the end of August, but ever since no payment. Monika says she and her husband have lost their jobs due to COVID, couldn't rent the flats and now she's not reveiving money for the completed stays.

Monika has listet a breakdown of outstanding payments for 19 stays, totalling apprx 2400 USD.

Monika has been calling and writing with airbnb every day but nothing. Unfortenately Monika's financial situation has gotten very difficult so in september she had to ask friends to lend her money to pay her bills. „We have two little kids - we can not sleep at night, worried about how to pay bills and buy food when you keep all payouts for 5 weeks“.

Meanwhile as it looks Monika has maxed out all financial resources:

• „Yesterday we were considering for me to go back to London (Monika lived there for 17 years) to find any job as here will be impossible now. We used the credit card limit and now we have nothing left. …. My 9-year-old girl heard this conversation and cried asking me not to go to London and leave them.
  
  It breaks my heart. Once while talking to airbnb , my girl took the phone and asked them, please pay my mum money“

• „Electricity bills, communal charges bills, internet bills etc etc . why, what we have done, please Airbnb pay us all money, we have nothing now, please“

2 days ago Monika received 72,000 CLS = apprx. 90 USD from airbnb. „At least I could buy some food today“ Monika wrote. But the remaining 2400 USD+ remain unpayed.

As I said this is a pretty long story, for details pls start reading here:

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Airbnb-Updates/Customer-service-updates-payments-and-more-in-the...

and continue to read there:

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Airbnb-Updates/Customer-service-updates-payments-and-more-in-the...

The conversation starts on page 10 and continous to page 11.

This is Monika's airbnb profile Picture: Monika , Domingo, Kyara and Maia

-----------------

I've been getting real emotional over this story. Obviousely I cannot contribute anything to all these payment details, but I have decided to send 100 Euros = 120 USD to Monika in Chile so she can buy more food for her family. In order to do so, today I have set up a Western Union account for international cash payments.

What I'd like to find out is:

• How hard is it to send Money to Chile in the 21st century?

[Monika-And-Domingo0]

@Lizzie,

on my reply to your post on 12.10.2020 I have written all missing payments as below 

I have received for 6 of the payment - but not for the last one HMQRBCEFWC – 93.537clp booking from September. 

Lizzie

You own me for below bookings back in August 

Reservation HMYFM2MTYM - 36.161 CLP

Reservation HMYXD5A42T - 32.304 CLP
Reservation HMHWJFYHM5 – 100.771 CLP
Reservation HMYTNYXRJA -- 63.644 CLP
Reservation HMAZRWT93P - 71.358 CLP

and two bookings in Septemeber
HMFSBNJDK4 – 139.341 clp
HMQRBCEFWC – 93.537 clp

I do receive my payments still via Argneper and they pay cash in Servipag. I have contacted Argenper now many times to send me a proof where are they getting money from but until now they send me nothing. I am going now to PDI on Monday to ask them to investigate it. 

All this action of your payment department is sorry but a joke - how they could add on my account new payout details? I need an answer for that and what did they add there? - THAT WE ACCEPT SERVIPAG PAYMENTS? Do you not see that all this is another excuse? YOu can not update your payout account details - your system does not allow it. You need to add new payout account and it takes few days for YOU AIRBNB to approve it ( this is why you get next to your newly created payout account messages-"  in approval process " and can take up to 5 days.  the day you started messing up with my account last Wednesday - Airbnb added new payout account on my profile ( under this new creation was a message - updated account 45 min ago ). You never get such message when you as host want to add a new payout account. It was no message that it is in the approval process, and was activated in the next hour.  AND payments still come via the same route you created back in April. No replies from Airbnb support assistance now - Jenell or anybody there completely ignores us - we chased them yesterday for this 93.000 CLP missing - nothing. We keep asking them about this new payout account created for us ( not Us) - no response. avoiding any answers. Argenepr does not want to tell us either. We are not safe and our money is not safe. 

Pay us for HMQRBCEFWC – 93.537clp  and for sake of .. send us money via bank transfer. Banco De Chile is the biggest bank here - trust me, with very sophisticated systems. Maybe Chile is considered still as developing country but we are not in the sone age to use sich primitive payment methods like Servipag - which is really for people to pay bills where they do not have access to the online payment system ( or have no bank account - many do not have )  ) or they live-in very remote places ( regardless if you been here in Chile - you can just look at any map and see the length of this country). I will get a reply from Argenper ! They only told me on the phone that payments are sent from London and NOT via Worldpay as Jenell told us. But this investigation is on and I WILL finish it.    

Please pay all host in Chile. Pay them. 

Monika

@Sarah977 @Super47 @Branka-and-Silvia0 @Sharon1014 @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 @Colleen253 @Heidi588 @Cormac0 @Helen3 @Mary419 @Alex893 @Inna22 @Emilia42 @Emiel1 @Paul1255, @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

[Super47]

Hi @Lizzie - yes I did see your update and it's great to see that someone is finally taking some interest in Monika and her family receiving the missing payouts that are rightfully theirs, even if it did take almost two months of relentless fighting and determination from Monika to get to this point.

However, Monika receiving her payouts is only one part of this story. The fact remains that her payouts are still being deposited - in cash - via the SERVIPAG cornershop system, by an Airbnb 'payment processor partner (Argenper).

Unfortunately, the 'agents' at Argenper are so far refusing to answer Monika's very reasonable and straightforward questions and/or provide the relevant documentation that verifies and validates the origin of the cash they're depositing in her bank account. No matter how many times she asks them. 

Of enormous concern here is that these deposits are unmarked and untraceable, with nothing appearing on Monika's bank statement to indicate that they have anything whatsoever to do with Airbnb and are (sometimes, not always) accompanied by nothing more than a hand-scribbled receipt which may or may not bear a few letters of someone's name and an illegible phone number. The only wording that appears on her statement in relation to these monies is 'deposito en efectivo' (cash deposits). Needless to say, this is a worrying situation which could cause her more than a few headaches should her bank account ever come under scrutiny from the authorities.

The big question here is why, in this day and age of instant money transfer - and in a country with sophisticated banking systems - Argenper agents in 3 different cities throughout Chile would be withdrawing substantial sums from the company's account, schlepping down the road to the corner shop with huge wads of cash relating to not only Monika's payouts but also it seems, to the payouts of unknown numbers of other Chilean hosts, and depositing all these amounts in various bank accounts, through the SERVIPAG machines.

Sure, there may very well be a perfectly innocent reason behind it all but unfortunately, Argenper appear wholly reluctant to share any such innocent reasons with Monika, which is obviously a tad disconcerting in itself. Obviously, Monika needs to protect her family from any possible irregularities or anomalies in connection with Argenper's rather unusual banking practices, so on Monday she'll be making her case to the PDI (Policia de Investigaciones de Chile/Investigations Police of Chile), who have already indicated that her concerns are completely valid and that they're interested in speaking further with her.

Apart from Chile, Argenper also has offices in Peru, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil (and 2 in the US) so presumably, Airbnb may also be partnering with them to handle their host payouts in those regions also. As yet, it's unknown just how many other hosts are also being paid via cash deposits in corner shops like Monika, but I guess that's something for the PDI to look into.

The biggest question of all though, is why on earth a multi-billion dollar global corporation like Airbnb would be partnering with an apparently Arthur Daly-type outfit like Argenper in the first place, and entrusting them with the handling and distribution of untold millions of dollars-worth of hosts' money. No doubt, that will probably be something that the PDI will be interested in seeking answers to also.

cc. @Monika-And-Domingo0 @Ute42 

[Super47]

For reference for any non-UK hosts that might be wondering who Arthur Daley is..

 

[Monika-And-Domingo0]

@Super47 

@Lizzie 

@Sarah977 @Super47 @Branka-and-Silvia0 @Sharon1014 @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 @Colleen253 @Heidi588 @Cormac0 @Helen3 @Mary419 @Alex893 @Inna22 @Emilia42 @Emiel1 @Paul1255, @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

Dear Penelope,

as we speak, I got a call from another host in Santiago - she is experiencing the same issue- all the same story and PAYMENTS are via Servipag !!!!  We are in touch now- and we are contacting other hosts - thank god - she started receiving payments now - again after almost 2 months and via ... SERVIPAG -- and again - no responses why Airbnb did not only delayed with payment but why changed the method of payment which is not available on the Airbnb ? of course this host was getting the same responses - account is wrong, the bank is wrong - everything is wrong- change your payout account details etcetc. 

@Lizzie,  you got a very wrong person - I am bloody determined - you did my life a hell !!! Get it! Hell!  you will have to answer a few questions. You block me - have mercy on you. HOW DARE YOU changing payments methods to your hosts without their approval? Answer my question! .WHAY YOU HAVE CHANGED PAYMENT METHOD WITHOUT ASKING US HOSTS? 

this question I have asked from 05.09.2020 - no reply. 

Monika

[Sarah977]

It's a really disturbing scenario that hosts in Chile are having their bank details given out to Arpenger, which is who exactly? And some unknown people at this place, with no official record of the transactions, have access to your personal information and are depositing cash through yet another entity?? It's sounding like some money laundering operation.

One thing to realize, though, is that Lizzie, Katie, and the other moderators here aren't actually Airbnb employees- they don't have any access to your hosting account, can't change anything on it, don't make decisions nor can take actions about anything except asking Airbnb what is happening with your case, and the way this forum functions. They work for another company that contracts out moderating services to Airbnb. You are quite understandably angry, but directing that anger at those who have zero power to do anything about your issues, except bring them to Airbnb's attention, isn't at all productive. 

If the moderators here on the forum are saying things that aren't true, as far as case workers being in touch with you, what payments you've received and so on, I know it's really aggravating, but I think it's because that is what they are being told by Airbnb customer service and payments staff. 

I sure hope you get to the bottom of this bizarre and highly suspect money transaction game Airbnb is playing.

@Monika-And-Domingo0

[Monika-And-Domingo0]

@Sarah977,

thank you for your message. I have been for weeks very patience and polite Sarah. Nobody coming here for the first time has any idea that those adm people work for another company. If so, they should be very transparent and honest from the very beginning that they are here to pass hosts messages and they can not promise anything, they have no power to do anything, they have no impact on Airbnb decision because they work for another company. Never promise or give false hope if there is nothing you can do. And still knowing now the true, Lizzie still gave me very clear feedback that she is the person who can make difference and talk directly to the payment account. After such a statement, anybody would expect the final result. Trust me- we have more important things to do than keep chasing Airbnb for our money and clarification and keep posting here messages. And I hope that all those hosts who find it borning, enjoying and not happy with my attitude etc -  will never have to deal with the same issues we had to. Angry? No, I am not angry, I am furious, tired and disappointed and yes ... bored and fed up and this is what this company wants us to feel like so we all eventually give up and they can carry on with the same stories with other hosts. Yes, I got back almost all my money, so I should just get quiet, be grateful? Lizzie just appeared at the end of this story so please do not give her a credit, still, if she has direct contact to payment department, there should not be anything missing to be paid, no cash payments should be carried on.  Or she should be very honest to say, that she has very limited tools to help hosts. I am more than happy to receive any other ideas on how to solve this problem and avoid anger responses which definitely do not serve my health. Thank you, Monika

[Super47]

Just to note here - it was entirely thanks to Monika's very wise habit of screenshotting and documenting absolutely everything (even long prior to her payouts disaster), and her insistence on being sent copies of the relevant associated  documentation from all parties involved in the transfer of her funds - from source to destination - that the pieces of the puzzle all finally started to slot together, and provided her with the insight and evidence which was invaluable in her battle to trace and retrieve her 'missing' money.

I'd strenuously advise every host to do exactly as Monika does, and screenshot, document and record literally everything when it comes to your Airbnb interactions. You never know when those small but vital pieces of information might provide you with crucial backup in the event of any of your own unexpected and unforeseen dealings or disputes with the company. 

[Monika-And-Domingo0]

@Lizzie8,

@Sarah977 @Super47 @Branka-and-Silvia0 @Sharon1014 @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 @Colleen253 @Heidi588 @Cormac0 @Helen3 @Mary419 @Alex893 @Inna22 @Emilia42 @Emiel1 @Paul1255, @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

below message from 

Airbnb Community Support <response@airbnb.com>

Fri 16/10/2020 01:40

To:

•  You

Airbnb Community Support Kate V, Oct 15, 2020, 18:40 PDT: Hello Monika and Domingo, My name is Kate and I'm contacting you on behalf of Jenell, my colleague. We're extremely sorry about all the issues with your payouts, this is certainly not the experience we want our hosts to have. Please know that Jenell has been working tirelessly on your case and has followed up on a timely matter with the responsible parties in order to get your payouts reissued properly. She has done an excellent job so far and followed the correct protocols. I wanted to explain a bit more about what has happened and why you think there's an issue with your RUT number. Airbnb is committed to providing the best user experience, for hosts and guests. To be able to do that and improve our product, we make constant changes in the way we process payments and payouts. Sometimes not everything goes as planned and we encounter issues on the way. In Chile, we have changed the way we process payouts and for the new process to work, some details will be required moving forward. For example, the verification digit from your RUT number. The verification digit of your RUT is the 9th digit and it can be calculated by using a specific formula. There are some sites available which calculate the RUT in an automated way. You can refer to this one for example (not an official site): https://validarut.cl/validar If you're not familiar with the verification digit of your RUT or don't know what that is, you can refer to this Wikipedia article for more information https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rol_%C3%9Anico_Nacional According to this Wikipedia article, “El RUN y el RUT constan de dos partes separadas por un guion: el número correlativo y el dígito verificador o DV.” In order for your future payouts process smoothly, it's important that you add your full RUT and include the "codigo verificador" as well. I can see that your current payout method only has 8 digits and no verification digit. I highly recommend adding a new payout method to include the verification digit, your RUT last 3 digits and verification digit should be 966-8. Please, could you kindly confirm which payouts you are still missing after all the reversals and reprocessing that happened in the meantime? I look forward to hearing back from you and I hope this case is resolved as soon as possible. Kind regards, Kate

RUT number of Domingo is 99945966 - he was born 53 years ago - when in Chile there were less than 10 million people - this number shows a number of people - when he was born is was 9 99 45 96 and the last 6 is this verification digit - so this is why his rut has only 7 numbers and the last one 6 is the verification digit - YOU can not add extra number because you Kate read on Wikipedia that RUT number should have 8 numbers + extra verification digit so in total 9. Jesus Christ - Wikipedia is a reliable resource and to teach  Chilean about their RUT numbers is just pathetic. My children who were born in the UK but got also Chilean citizenship now, are 22 million-plus - so their RUT will have 8 numbers ( obviously as from 9 million when Domingo was born - now we have 22 million so automatically extra number will appear) + number for verification, which will make 9 numbers - but you refer to present times when reading Wikipedia. When Doming was born more than 50 years ago - in Chile was less than 10 million people. 

This is madness !! Real madness - I have no words to express the stupidity of people we have to deal with. Airbnb read on Wikpidai that now RUT number in Chile should be 9 digits ( 8 + 1 number extra for verification ) and they decided to add random number 8 to Domingo's Rut because he has only 7 numbers+ one extra number 6 for verification - so in total 8. In the last 50 years, more people were born in Chile, right ? so it is obvious that those RUT numbers will get bigger and new Chileans will have more digits as their RUT number represent how many people in Chile have the Chilean nationality. RUT is for life, you can not change it as you wish - I repeat, Domingo's RUT always will have in total 8 digits ( 7 numbers: 9 994 596  and 6 number which is verification number so in total His RUT from the begging t the rest of his life is 9 994 596 6.

YOU were sending bank transfers with this RUT before - you added extra number 8 as you decided that Wikpidai tells that now in Chile RUT numbers should have 9 digits ) so let's add an extra number to Domingos RUT - but from 1967 until 2020 - more than 10 millions Chileans came to this world. Domingo, when was born, was 9 994 596 ( so in total we have 7 digits, right ? + 6 number as the verification number, right - so we have 8 digits in total )And this number is for life.  Today we have in Chile more than 22 millions so my child RUT number is ( 22 455 668 - so 8 digits + 3 number verification number - in total 9 digits - right? BUT we have today 2020. in 1967 there were less than 10 million Chileans - so you can not make more because you just read recently something in Wikipedia.  Por favour - 

@Lizzie Lizzie- what kind of people work in Airbnb? 

Monika

[Sarah977]

You must feel like you've been dropped into a Kafka novel and can't find the way out into the real world again. 

You know those logic puzzles, like "The day before two days after the day before tomorrow is Saturday. What day is it today?"

I think that prospective Airbnb employees are all required to take those tests and if they fail every question, they get hired.

@Monika-And-Domingo0

[Monika-And-Domingo0]

@Lizzie8, @Catherine-Powell 

@Sarah977 @Super47 @Branka-and-Silvia0 @Sharon1014 @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 @Colleen253 @Heidi588 @Cormac0 @Helen3 @Mary419 @Alex893 @Inna22 @Emilia42 @Emiel1 @Paul1255, @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

Sarah,

Domingo worked for more than 20 years in Chilean embassy in London. We called today one of his friends who is in charge of passports, visas, ID department. He could not believe the stupidity of this email. So Himself working directly for the Chilean government, Ambassador of the Chilean government in the UK, the president of Chile Pinera etc - all those people according to Airbnb have wrong Rut number - as all of them ( including all past and present presidents of Chile were born before Domingo's birth 1967 and all of them have 7 digit number + extra indication number, in total 8 digit ID number  - so all of them as per Kate from payment department of Airbnb - all Chilean born before 1967 - all presidents - all have a wrong ID number. HOW THICK YOU HAVE TO BE to send us such email. But not only that- Kate reconfirmed that Airbnb changed Domigos ID number intentionally and this is criminal act !!!!.  ( because Wikipedia says so ) how low you Airbnb went and you now breaking a law- international law - as changing the personal details to for your own benefit ( stopping the payments to show IPO profit) is a criminal act! Enough is enough AIRBNB 

[Super47]

@Sarah977

"If the moderators here on the forum are saying things that aren't true, as far as case workers being in touch with you, what payments you've received and so on, I know it's really aggravating, but I think it's because that is what they are being told by Airbnb customer service and payments staff"

Unless a host has gone through the same experiences as Monika has over the past two months and had the same hardships, misery and suffering inflicted upon themselves and their families - as a direct result of Airbnb's 'gross incompetence' (and that's putting it politely) - then it's very difficult for them to have any real inkling of the extreme stress, anxiety, despair and downright exhaustion that Monika (and countless other hosts worldwide) are being put through every day. None of us can deny it's happening though, because we see endless examples of it on this very forum on a constant, ongoing basis. 

Despite literally dozens of opportunities to rectify Monika's situation, Airbnb has instead chosen - day after day, week after week - to continue lying, deceiving, obfuscating and gaslighting, and in doing so, perpetuating and exacerbating the abuse and exploitation of good, decent people. Because make no mistake, abuse is what it is - financial, emotional and mental abuse. Plain and simple.

Regardless of who pays the piper, or is calling the tune - for anyone to then compound the injustices by publicly perpetuating further blatant falsehoods relating to the person who is the one actually suffering the abuse here - and in doing so, deliberately undermining that person's credibility and trustworthiness and clearly insinuating that they're the liar, they're the crazy one, they're the fantasist - goes way beyond aggravating. It's insidious, and unconscionable, and sets a very dangerous precedent. 

We need to call this for what it is, and not trivialise the devastating impact that Airbnb's egregious corporate behaviour can - and does - have on those who are the victims of the company's systematic (from the top down) deception, dishonesty and duplicity. And try to understand people's reactions when they feel that they've been pushed just that one step too far. 

[Rebecca181]

@Super47  Thank you for bringing @Monika-And-Domingo0's tragic case to our attention. When the 'power-holder' in the system (in this case Airbnb Corporate) distorts reality, denies or manipulates factual events, insinuates the victim is actually uninformed, mistaken, or at fault, and willfully engages in 'gaslighting' behaviors, they are in fact employing tactics common to DARVO: An acronym for 'Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender' (J.J. Freyd), meaning, the victim (in this case Monika and her family) is re-victimized (and re-traumatized) secondary to the promotion of false narratives:

"DARVO is an acronym used to describe a common strategy of abusers. The abuser will Deny the abuse ever took place, then Attack the victim for attempting to hold the abuser accountable; then they will lie and claim that they, the abuser, are the real victim in the situation, thus Reversing the Victim and Offender." Full (research-supported) article here: https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html.

[Super47]

I wasn't previously familiar with the acronym DARVO @Rebecca181, but after reading your description - yes, this was a textbook case. And boy, were there plenty of false narratives employed in this instance. Extremely disturbing, not to mention distressing for Monika and her family. Its unconscionable that people can be put through such an Orwellian nightmare for weeks on end, with no recourse whatsoever

[Lizzie]

Hello @Monika-And-Domingo0,

Thanks for the update. I've spoken with the Payments team again and they have confirmed that the 93.537 clp payment (stated above), has already been released and sent to your account. I imagine though as it was the last payment in the delayed amounts, it might be the last one to arrive with you. Would you mind checking in the next day or so if it's arrived and letting me know please?

In regards to the the way the money is arriving and displaying, unfortunately I don't have any specific information on this. As you can imagine millions of payments are going out on a daily basis to hosts across the world, so I don't know all the details there to provide you with a satisfactory and helpful answer. As I say I've been trying to ensure that the payments are on their way to you–which I hope/think we are almost there with. To know more, I would recommend replying to the email you have received from the Support Team, with your specific questions. Sorry I can't help more there.

I've also checked to make sure that any further payments for future bookings will go out smoother than these, and from Airbnb side, it all looks good. So I'm hopeful. 

I hope this help a little bit and please do let me know about your last payment.

Thanks so much,
Lizzie

[Helen3]

@Monika-And-Domingo0  Any update since @Lizzie  asked for confirmation on 20 October- did you receive the outstanding payments??

hopefully this is the case