Paying for the Second Guest

[Mary742]

Be warned fellow hosts:  if you have a listing which is independent and self-contained, this may attract a guest who thinks no-body will see them bring in a second guest, or notice that they break house rules.  We've just seen the back of a guest who fronted up with an unregistered second guest, who refused to pay the second guest surcharge.  AirBnB Support Crew were great, helping us to try and recoup the surcharge through phone calls and messages.  Neither AirBnB Crew nor I could force her to alter the reservation, because the reservation had already started.  They nearly burnt the place down, cooking some large meal, despite the house rules of only small meals, there being a restaurant across the road open all day and every day.  So my husband and I learned that yep, in such cases, even the AirBnB crew can't enforce an extra payment for the extra guest.  So we evicted her and her second guest, with a clear utlimatum before-hand along the lines of:  "If you don't pay the second guest surcharge by such-and-such time, the premises will not be available for you for tonight," to which of course there was no response.  So we nicely packed their stuff into plastic bags, locked the side gate access to the premises and put their things on the front verandah for them to collect, despite their third and last night being paid for.  The third night's fee was the equivalent of the extra guest surcharge, so now we are all in balance.  We have to take justice into our own hands sometimes.  We cannot rely on AirBnB Support Crew to be of support, and this is understandable, as they are powerless after a certain point too, just like us as hosts.  We have to be vigilant, firm, business-like and sometimes quite drastic.  The guests finally picked up their bags late last night and they won't get refunded for their third night.....

[Julieanna0]

@Diana1027 You can purchase a doorbell like Ring or Nest that records both audio and visual activity.  I just had to ask a guest to leave my home this past weekend.  He booked it for 1 person and a total of 9 people entered my home.  Also, be sure that you purchase the cloud plan for Ring, (they call it the "Ring Protect Plan"), or Nest so you can go back and review and share the recordings in the cloud.   If you are near a Costco and purchase a Ring Doorbell from them, you automatically get 1 free year of "Ring Protect" which is about a $100 value.  It also makes it very easy to prove to Airbnb that additional people entered your home by sharing the video link(s) with them.  Although it doesn't guarantee that Airbnb will do anything to help or compensate you as the host,--at least you will know and can demand that the guests leave your property.  

[Dana282]

We've been considering this as well as outside cameras on the garage.

[Dana282]

My sister is pur caretaker and lives next door to our Airbnb. Her husband is a former cop and she doesnt play around either. We also have 3 other neighbors directly across the street and on the other side of us keeping an eye out. So far, we haven't had any issues, except for our very first booking where they parked large utility trucks on the street, blocking our neighbors across the street from pulling out, and they had more people in than they had initially claimed. Oh, and smoked pot in my house. That we didnt realize til after they left and the next guest arrived and found a bong with pot in it in one of our kitchen drawers. My sister said she thought she had smelled pot when she came to clean after they left, but she wasnt sure. Until we found the bong. I changed my listing to be more specific, and now ask very specific questions, asking them to confirm that they are having no parties,  no pets, no extra people, and no more vehicles than are allowed in the driveway. I feel, with my sister, her hubby, and my neighbors that it helps to deter some of the more rowdy guests who would book. I make it very clear that many eyes are watching  in my listing AND in my initial messages with them prior to approving a booking. 

[Sarah977]

@Dana282  " I make it very clear that many eyes are watching  in my listing AND in my initial messages with them prior to approving a booking. "

I think that's so important. I've read posts here where hosts had partiers who trashed the house, but when I go to look at their listing to see how they describe the place, they say things like "You'll have total privacy." or "We live an hour away but are always available to answer your calls or messages if you need assistance." which is counterproductive to party squashing. Guests need to feel that unacceptable behavior will be noticed and swiftly dealt with.

[Dana282]

Well of course I don't make it sound like they're being spied on. I phrase it that the caretakers are right next door for anything guests need. They guests are left alone, but everyone is aware of who is entering and exiting the house! Many guests actually have enjoyed socializing with my caretakers and neighbors. I also note that my surrounding neighbors are aware that our house is on Airbnb, and stress that parties and loud activity will be noticed, and to please respect the quiet neighborhood and neighbors. 

[Ken320]

Ring doorbell works pretty well. 

[Monica4]

That is why I took off my listing. It was happening all the time. Even though I had a security camera installed (outside) that monitored the entrance and was able to proove to Airbnb that there were additional guests, they never, ever collected any money for the extra guests on my behalf. A reservation can be changed after guests check in. But those changes were ignored. 

[Kira32]

I had a guest who wanted to sneak in another guest  because she thought that I don't live in the same apartment.  The guy who was with her waited outside. I introduced myself and to my other guest when she arrived. In the middle night she send me a message that she put the keys on the kitchen table and then left. She was probably waiting a long time to make sure nobody sees her sneak in the guy who was waiting  outside the apartment. Hilarious! !😂

[Thomas1033]

@Mary742 @Kira32 @Monica4 @Ken320 @Sarah977 @paul154.  I do believe I have found the solution to the extra people problem.  We charge for up to 5.  We have cameras front and back. We spell it out in our description and even give an example for those that can’t add.  Lastly there will be $100 per person per night sneak in fee.  Practically as much or even more than  1 nights stay.  I wrote and rewrote it until I was satisfied and it worked.  No extra bodies since last Sept/oct I believe.  And we get good reviews.  And yes we live right below the apartment but people are bold nonetheless!!!  Yvonna (cohost). Thomas seeing me typing this is like “uh oh “.  I told him I’m interacting with my peeps!

[Mary742]

A "sneak in" fee - I love it!  LOL, the lengths we go to as hosts!   Thankyou for validating - you've obviously had trouble with guests sneaking in too!

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Thomas1033 

You and me too! 

I was aware that sneak-ins would be highly probable so I've been jiggling my House Rules and settings to protect against it happenning without causing confusion issues with bookings. It almost worked flawlessly a few weeks back but I'll tell you how I've set mine up and the pitfalls to avoid...

===========

Your House Rules:

 $100 per person per night fee for sneak ins and showing up with more than 5 total guests unless we give you a written okay ahead of time. 

My House Rules:

UNAUTHORISED GUESTS

No unauthorised guests. Only authorised guests listed in the reservation are allowed on the property. 

ADDITIONAL GUESTS

Additional guests can be authorised at the hosts' discretion subject to payment of the additional guest fee. Additional Guests over our occupancy level of 8 guests will be charged £100 per. person per. night.

==========

If you write it in your House Rules the guest agrees to abide by them before they book.

Point 1. Put it in your House Rules.

You may want to evict the whole group, or you may want to offer the guest to pay for additional guests.

Point 2. Retain control and offer your guest your proposed surrender plan - if you want to. If not, evict them or ask them to leave or ask them to cancel - whatever your preferred action.

Add a monetary value for the extra guest(s).

Point 3. Add this value in your Pricing section under "Extra Guests" provided by Airbnb.

Make sure that your extra guest fee is clear to see.

Point 4. Put this same value in your House Rules.

Then comes implementation.

Do not write anything in your House Rules which you will not follow through with.

On suspicion of extra guests (after doing a head count of sorts) speak to the booking guest. Face to face works best, or use Airbnb messaging to ensure an evidence trail. You have two options here, you either intend to allow them stay because they're not being threatening or disruptive, or you are going to ask them to leave because they are being threatening or disruptive, or because you cannot allow additional guests or because... for your own reasons.

Where you might want to allow the extra guests to stay you can offer accomodation at your Extra Guest rate which has already been agreed by your booking guest. Your guest has a choice: Pay and stay, or pack and go.

Where the guests want to stay, make an immediate Payment Request and await payment right there and then. Don't wait until the guests have left because Payment Requests are negotiable. You do not want to negotiate and you do want to be in receipt of the extra guest charges previously agreed on. When payment is received, ask whether the additional guests require bedding or towels. (If you have some extra bed type, offer those too, but remember that these guests were completely happy sleeping in the bath before you found them out).

Hopefully, that works.

It didn't work entirely for me because I didn't know payment requests were negotiable. I do now. The guest made a payment of an amount he felt appropriate. However, a mutually acceptable arrangement was arrived at. My Extra Guest rate is set at 2.5X the average guest price per night.

I will just add, I rent a whole space with a max occupancy of 8.

I DO NOT WANT TO BE OFFERING ACCOMODATION FOR 8+ OR 10 OR whatever..

I DO NOT WANT to host more than 8.

I DO NOT WANT GUESTS SLEEPING ON MY SOFA's.

These things unathorised guests will already be doing. My Extra Guest fee makes these things bearable but still not acceptable.

This might not work out for in home sharing or single room letting but you might find parts of this useful to help in those situations.

CC. @Mary742 @Kira32 @Monica4 @Ken320 @Sarah977 

[Mary742]

Wow, it's quite obvious now, that it's not just me that experiences guests sneaking in!  It must happen a lot!  With the idea of written rules, I think the only people who read them are the ones who don't even need to read them.  The ones who we want to read them, won't read them!   I'm a piano teacher and have learned that this same principal applies in my music studio too!  So what I've done now is raised my daily price, and made the extra guest surcharge smaller.  I'll see how it goes... may get less bookings.  Plus, I've changed my settings from "instant book" to "request to book".  I don't like my security in my home being challenged with creepy people!  Plus I'm even advertising for a long-term boarder.  I'll keep hosting until I find a boarder who is decent.  It might take a long time!  Thank you for sharing!

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Mary742 

It's a regret that any Host (or I ) need to even think in these ways. Having to place rules to protect against being taken advantage of, or to protect about not being backed up if such events happen shouldn't be needed but it's the same pathway many hosts find themselves on. The idea of having to install CCTV to provide evidence to Airbnb when they require it is worrying. There just seems to be a total lack of trust.

Your direct action worked. Job done.

[Mary742]

Thank you Ian and Anne-Marie.  As long as we are all aware that the AirBnB platform is only a platform, nothing more.  They can't be bothered intervening between guest and host.  It's too much work for them.  We have to look after ourselves, create our on justice!  I would never have recouped the unpaid extra guest surcharge otherwise!  Thank you for sharing!  I'm learning not to trust so readily, sad thing, but if we open up our own homes (my B&B is at the back of my house), we need to feel secure.  It's our home, first and foremost.

[Yunus4]

Hi Mary.

My name Yunus.   Best way is to sent guest / House rule first before check in./ any extra guest will  not be entained / deposit must taken in advance for this. / set up a cctv  recording./ nobody knows when you watching

I can  gaurantee  you will not loose  any guest / your place will always be respected and you get respected guest/ Have your rules strait and DO NOT bend for nobody.<it sound hard but it works. < We have 41 camers in our place 

Try it for small period of time ./ let me know / we are running for 19years. it works.

 Kind regards.