Ethics of Booking Off-Platform for Long Term Guest

[Suzanne302]

I have a repeat guest that has booked at least a few days each week since September because he has been coming to town for work. He's going to need to continue to come for work for probably the next few months. He wants to discuss booking by the month so he doesn't have to move his belongings and food back and forth each time.

The winter months are slow anyway so I'm open to it (plus, he won't actually be here all the time). I'm pretty sure this guy isn't going to turn out to be a squatter so please don't warn me about taking on a long term guest, I'm good with that part and have experience with long term guests.

Assuming I have rental contract and all legalities/insurance covered do you think it's ethical to do this booking off-platform? My reasoning is that Airbnb has gotten over a month of fees from this guest's bookings and the guest and I have developed a good rapport.

Again, please don't comment about the dangers/risks of booking outside of Airbnb, I'm covered on that! Just curious if you think it's okay to go ahead and book direct even though we were introduced via Airbnb.

[Mike-And-Helen0]

It is against policy and you won't be covered by airbnb protection, but this person is known to you now so I think morally ok.

[Alon1]

@Suzanne302 

It's perfectly fine. We are not employees of Airbnb. It's clearly stated in ToS.

Once a booking is finished, the relationship is no longer related to Airbnb, and there is no obligation to take returning Guests as Airbnb. 

In any case, many Hosts are not exclusively Airbnb hosts.

[Suzanne302]

@Alon1 Thanks, that was my thinking. It's not like he contacted me and wanted to book direct before booking with Airbnb. He's done multiple bookings through Airbnb.

[Helen350]

@Suzanne302  I agree with @Alon1 .  I have hosted a number of professionals; engineers in the nuclear industry,  social workers, doctors & paramedical professions, (all police checked!) - who have then returned as temporary lodgers, or on/off lodgers who return to their own homes on days off. I do it all the time! I also advertise on a UK lodger finding site when a room is unspoken for for a long period, so whether I get my next lodger from there, or from a current Airbnb guest asking to stay medium term, what's the difference?

[Suzanne302]

@Helen350  Thanks. I don't think some of the hosts who responded understood my question!

[Sean433]

I don't think it is a good idea to post this here in case it is monitored which it probably is. If you decide to do it, my suggestion is to not write about it, to preserve your status with airbnb. Just a tip

[Helen350]

@Sean433 My airbnb guests who contemplate staying longer as lodgers, know I host a mixture of lodgers & airbnb, in my own home. Sometimes, they pass on the landing on the way to the shared bathroom! Or use the kitchen at the same time. Airbnb guests may ask me where I recruited the lodgers, or ask the lodgers.... The answer will be "Spare Room" - a lodger finding site...... So, whether the airbnb guest asks if s/he can stay, OR contacts me through "Spare Room", the outcome is the same - they come as a lodger, not an airbnb guest. As @Alon1 succinctly  said, the contract with airbnb is over once the reservation has finished, and I then have some sort of relationship with the person who has been in my house. Based on that relationship, I can welcome them back if I wish; it's nothing to do with airbnb; THAT contract was in the PAST!

[Alon1]

@Sean433 

it's an even better idea if you familiarize yourself with the basic relationship between Airbnb and it's clients as set out in ToS: That way you won't need to express and propagate  paranoia.

1.2 As the provider of the Airbnb Platform, Airbnb does not own, create, sell, resell, provide, control, manage, offer, deliver, or supply any Listings or Host Services, nor is Airbnb an organiser or retailer of travel packages under Directive (EU) 2015/2302. Hosts alone are responsible for their Listings and Host Services. When Members make or accept a booking, they are entering into a contract directly with each other. Airbnb is not and does not become a party to or other participant in any contractual relationship between Members, nor is Airbnb a real estate broker or insurer. Airbnb is not acting as an agent in any capacity for any Member, except as specified in the Payments Terms.

1.4 If you choose to use the Airbnb Platform as a Host or Co-Host (as defined below), your relationship with Airbnb is limited to being an independent, third-party contractor, and not an employee, agent, joint venturer or partner of Airbnb for any reason, and you act exclusively on your own behalf and for your own benefit, and not on behalf, or for the benefit, of Airbnb. Airbnb does not, and shall not be deemed to, direct or control you generally or in your performance under these Terms specifically, including in connection with your provision of the Host Services. You acknowledge that you have complete discretion whether to list Host Services or otherwise engage in other business or employment activities.

[Sean433]

@Alon1 

Some of us know from first hand experience, myself included that airbnb TOS often does not match airbnb's decision making when it comes to conflicts between hosts and guests and or between airbnb and the host. There are numerous case examples I have read through this forum and you can also read to evidence this.

This is not propagating paranoia, airbnb's inconsistently trained customer service staff and arbitrary decisions to unfairly refund guests, or worse, suspend or terminate hosts account does all of the propagating. There are numerous examples of airbnb stating they will conduct investigations and often times those whose accounts are terminated are not even given a reason as to why. They often state that they do not need to provide a reason. The reason they keep their decisions on such matters a secret is so that they do not give you the ammo  of information by which  you can later sue them for incorrectly applying their TOS against your favour.

All I am saying is it is better not to risk publishing certain content that may be in the "grey area" which airbnb can arbitrarily and inconsistently make a decision that will harm you. Whether it is or is not in align with your interpretation of their TOS is irrelevant.

Look up everything I just stated, the evidence is overwhelming and unfortunate

[Sean433]

@Alon1 

If you think that their vague self constructed TOS will come to your favour during a dispute, that is naive. 1.4 of the TOS you copied and pasted does not speak directly to offline bookings and is irrelevant to this conversation.

Also, they state that you are not an employee of theirs yet they can they determine whether you do or do not get payments if a guest makes a false accusation. If we are not their employees then how can airbnb block a payment that is rightfully ours?

I will give you a perfect example. I once had a guest who raised false safety issues of my home which I evidenced thoroughly were false. And the second case manager who I evidenced this to fully agreed with me and stated the first case manager messed up.  This person stayed in my house the night, took showers and used our coffee leaving dirty mugs behind. She left the next day and airbnb did not pay me for her 1 night stay nor the cleaning fee.

If I was truly an independent contractor, I would have the ability to charge this guest the 1 night she stayed plus the cleaning fee but that decision was made by airbnb, NOT by me. hence, evidence that I was treated as an employee, not an independent contractor. That is not consistent with 1.4 of their TOS as you pasted.

Anyways, I am sure most of us having similar stories and examples. My point is that their TOS is often meaningless and an experienced host would know that by now.

[Alon1]

@Sean433 

What you describe including the account of your guest is in context of an Airbnb booking.

The subject of this thread relates to Host-Guest relationship  outside the bounds of Airbnb. 

- Thus a Guest might decide to book first time via Airbnb, and second time may chose another website if the Host operates on different websites. In such cases Airbnb don't exercise surveillance of all their Hosts. They have no interest to do so.

[Sean433]

@Alon1 

I think you are misunderstanding me.

For the record, I personally believe Suzanne should be able to book this offline if as airbnb states, she is an "independent contractor".

If the guest discovers throughout the course of their stay that their host operates on other sites or has their own booking site, that guest is entitled to book however they want in the future. However, if you are discussing this through the airbnb app and all airbnb knows is that this guest wants to book offline without the background information, it can lead to issues.

Do not believe their TOS or your interpretation of it will help you when there is a dispute because their application of their own TOS is so inconsistent that it devalues and renders the words on them meaningless. My whole point is that it is better to be safe then sorry. I.e. not post every thought you have openly that can be used against you but to each their own. That is all.

[Alon1]

@Sean433 

As I see it the key phrase in your argument: 'all airbnb knows is that this guest wants to book offline'.

In my understanding, 'offline' is only relevant if the Guest discusses via the Airbnb messaging system', i.e. attempts to divert the booking offline and so deny Airbnb their service fee'. 

  In this case Airbnb also have a further legitimate concern in protecting Hosts from communicating off their site due to a variety of scams. 

Beyond that it's not 'offline'. It's on-line via any other medium or website or via personal contact like phone. 

[Suzanne302]

@Sean433  I agree with @Alon1 that you're expressing a bit of paranoia. After reading the comments and thinking more about it myself, I believe it's perfectly reasonable to book off-platform after you've developed a relationship with a guest.

A new guest contacting you via Airbnb and asking to book direct, now that's shady and a very bad idea. I'd never even consider that. But when you've gotten to know a guest over the course of two months, that's a different story.

Plus, I'd never do a long-term booking via Airbnb anyway because even though I have no worries about his guest, anyone staying with me more than 30 days is going to need to sign a lease and provide an actual deposit.