Is it unreasonable to tell all guests from 3pm on Christmas ...
Is it unreasonable to tell all guests from 3pm on Christmas Eve and Christmas that my phone will be turned off? I will suppl...
Hello all,
Looking for some commentary on how arbitration went and any after-effects. We had a guest steal about $1K of consumables (toilet paper, laundry detergent, paper towels, cleaning supplies) + vacuum and a stool, and Airbnb is interested in paying out less than half, claiming that consumables are excluded in the TOS. I am unable to find this in the exclusions.
Interesting twist to our guest story is that she had 0 reviews, we met her in person at the home and DURING HER STAY airbnb removed her from the platform due to violation of guest agreement, without adequately informing us. We did receive a generic email warning us to more or less keep an eye out for sketchy guests and follow airbnb rules because someone we'd had contact with had been removed from the platform. No information as to which guest or even that it was a guest. I called customer service to find out which guest, and they refused to disclose and told me there was nothing to worry about.
Little did we know, that guest was currently finishing her stay with us, which ended with the missing items and add'l cleaning costs due to place being trashed.
We cannot contact the guest at this point as she was removed from the platform. Let's not get into the fact that this could have been much, much worse including significant safety and security risks to ourselves and property given the guest would be pissed off, with nothing to lose and a history of bad behavior that resulted in the platform removal in the first place. Guest had provided an ID as a part of account sign-up, so we know airbnb has her info. We're now considering the two remaining options to getting paid for the missing items. We are not interested in leaving the platform and please note that we consider this a business decision looking for financial compensation only.
Option 1 - Under current TOS, it appears we can pursue arbitration for a $200 filing fee. I'm curious as to the after-effects of filing - has anyone filed, won/lost and stayed on the platform as a host? Did airbnb penalize you? If you win, do they pay back the filing fee as a part of your costs?
Option 2 - We can file a small claims case against guest. Question here is how to get the guest address out of Airbnb as they have told us repeatedly they will not share it. This is required for us to file the case. Anyone have experience in this arena?
Are there other options we are not aware of?
Thanks in advance!
Answered! Go to Top Answer
@Shannon333 I’m sorry you had a bad experience with a guest. It’s always disappointing when guests behave this way, however it is more common than not.
The bad news is, neither arbitration or small claims court will award you compensation for consumables. It’s not wrong under the law for a guest to take more than their fair share of consumable items. This is because, excessive use of complimentary products is not considered theft... not in the US... not anywhere. Airbnb therefore don’t have to explicitly state this in their TOS, it’s inherently permitted under the law and is general allowed by society.
If it was unacceptable to take too many consumables, hotels would have been suing guests for years. Around half all hotel guests clean out every hotel jar, packet and sachet during their stay.
It is generally expected by society that the amount of complimentary items provided are all available to use by a guest. Therefore, if you want guests to us less, you need to provide less. Also, this is why hotels and most hosts are moving away from any kind of individually packaged consumables. It’s bad for the environment, expensive, and it makes it easier for guests to uplift more than their fair share.
I would take some time to think through how you could adjust your listing to be less Poodle friendly (I.e. people who pilfer more than their fair share). I moved to offering soap on pump, spreads in little reusable home filled jars, hell even butter in a glass dish I refill myself. No sachets or packets. I even limit the amount of paper towel per guest, the amount of laundry liquid in the pump, the number of toilet rolls... it’s all down to the amount I’m prepared for guests to use. Plus, if they want to clean me out, they would need to bring their own containers and a funnel!
Your property (the vacuum and the stool), however, should be covered by the host guarantee, so Airbnb should compensate you for them.
The obvious thing to do is to call Airbnb now and report this and ask them why her profile hasn't been removed from the platform.
What was her review like by the way.
did that actually prior to posting. They wouldn't offer any information and just told me another unnamed department makes those decisions, they have no visibility and there was no recourse offered other than to fill out the generic online feedback form.
@Shannon333 There is a facebook group called Airbnb Guest Blacklist group:
You can post her name and profile on there and say what happened.
Hello @Jill914
You say you are an attorney so you will be better versed than most of us on how to take Airbnb to court.
I am sorry Airbnb haven't processed your claim promptly.
You mentioned you knew the water was out on the night they partied. What happened when you turned up at the premises. Did you not go in to evict them and minimise the chance of further damage.
Sorry it's quite difficult to follow your story because of the spelling errors and difficult sentence construction so not sure if I properly understood.
Hopefully Airbnb will sort your your claim soon, but have you not made a claim on your home insurance for STRs.
Thank you Helen
I see posted this without realizing it. I will post correct account of what happened and information I want to somehow share .
As an attorney, I absolutely read and followed all Airbnb procedures and policies . I agreed to them and expected Airbnb would comply with the policies as written I like Airbnb, but have concerns about the Host Guarantee , which I try to view as separate.
Circumstances of Loss were as folows
1. I contacted Airbnb immediately when two guests out of 10 were belligerent, Airbnb offered to terminate the reservation immediately, but since there were small children and grandparents I agreed to check on them in the morning, The morning seemed fine, although there was a dog not included in the reservation. In the afternoon neighbors notified me of a party being set and caterers. I do not allow events. A huge storm was coming. A guest called me and told me he was going to take a crow basement to my washing machined and the Internet was out. I realized they had blown a fuse in the basement, which has never happened. They refused to let me in the house. I checked for power outages in the area, and called my internet service provider rather than blaming the guest . I confirmed the guest needed to reset the breakers which are easily located or let me in the house; they refused to do either. Then I called Airbnb who emailed me to call the and the police. Before the police would forcibly remove the guest, the police reasonably wanted confirmation from Aibnb they were asked to leave. Airbnb referred he police to a non-working web page to make an information request.l They could not locate their conversation with the guest in the notes, but did later because I kept the names of everyone at Airbnb with whom i spoke. The language of the 'Airbnb message merely said "airbnb no longer supports this reservation." For the police to act, it needed to say that Airbnb had spoken with the guests to ask them to leave or attempted to contact them. I was not to confront the guest and did not . It took about hours to get the communication I needed from Airbnb, the police gave the guests time to leave . As luck would have it, one of the worst storms in history happened that day, while guests had turned off two sump pumps continued their party upstair . The basement had never flooded in the history of the house, and there were 2 sump pumps. There was 14 inches to 2 feet of water by the time I was ale to return. I flipped the breaker switch and the sump pumps quickly cleared the water. However, the , destroying my furnace , water heater, washer dryer, floors , walls, inventory... there was a paint ball game in my living room and the caterers spilled catering pans of hot grease...
Procedures After the Loss -- I want to publish a guide for this .
I reported the loss and issues to Airbnb all day, and throughout the extraction. After the loss I was sent to the Resolution portal , and they matter bypassed the guest. resolution because it is a serious loss.
2 An Airbnb owner should never file a homeowner's insurance claim instead of the Host Guarantee because your insurance rating is very, very important. In the US, most policies exclude short term rental. If you are covered, you will most likely be dropped after the first claim. A serious loss can count as two claims.
(I will tell you how to check your homeowners policy provisions another time)
The most important benefit we have as hosts is the Guarantee and most of us would not go forward without it.
The Guarantee is primary for covered losses for what it covers. Airbnb covers cash surrender value depreciated values. If Airbnb has fully complied with the terms of the Guarantee and you have a loss., THEN you must file a claim with your homeowners insurance
This is a fair system. I read it. I consent
There is a trap-- if your homeowners policy pays amounts Airbnb covers, the Guarantee is fulfilled . Airbnb is off the hook. I saw this too. I agreed
After filing the claim with Airbnb , which took 23 hours to upload... I heard nothing for weeks. Then, finally, and adjuster called after a month -- with water damage and emergency remediation costs to extract the water. I literally took week off of work and ot everything to the adjuster who sent their inspector out.
I confirmed the inspection report came back on September 27 and was forward to Airbnb for review in October. I had some other covered property but stated to the adjuster i could not afford to hold up the claim.
Airbnb has deliberately delayed paying me and avoided all contact. After 60 days of this, I went on twitter and got an email thanking me for my patience. The adjuster said she forgot to send the report after ocnfirming she had sent it
The communication and delay area not reasonable. It is a tactic to try to force me to file a homeowner's claim. I believe this is true because during my first contract with Crawford, the independent adjuster, the Crystal misrepresented to me that the Host Guarantee is secondary "Insurance" ten seconds after stating the Guarantee is not insurance . I informed is false, and confirmed that she had made this representation in an email.
Ninety days later , I have no communication other than childish , offensive emails . Airbnb is not regulated as insurance regulations which specify time frames.
However , the Guarantee is a promise to consumers (hosts) to reasonably protect us from damage and loss, including lost bookings. Airbn is not reasonably processing my claim . It has deceptibly stopped processing my urgent claim to force me to look to Homeowners insurance so the are released from my claim, knowing and I surely will be dropped i from my homeowner' s insurance if i do. I have
I am going to file an arbitration under the Wisconsin Deceptive Trade Practices Act which provides for two or more times the actual damages to send a message to a company to correct their misrepresentations and actions. . All states have some version of this.
I any hosts are having difficulty with a serious loss (more than $5,000 to 10,000) I will help them with file and arbitration demand letter under the appropriate consumer law and I will post the progress.
I just have to figure out how and where to post .
Hi @Jill914
Thanks for the update.
I think we will have to agree to disagree regarding Airbnb's guarantee. It is extremely limited in what it covers. And is not home insurance. It is a guarantee which covers some damage/theft etc.
As a business owner I always take out appropriate insurance. Of course ordinary home insurance wouldn't cover a host that's why we need specialist home insurance for short term lets.
In your situation I wouldn't care who covered the claim my insurance or the guarantee. You are of course too late to make a claim on your insurance (you would have need to done that when the incident happened). So I hope Airbnb will process your claim. I'm sure as an attorney you are aware that Airbnb already has an arbitration system in place for hosts disputing how it processes claims under the guarantee.
Helen
We all take out insurance for short term rental for an additional $2.000 a year or so . The cost , subject to premiums based on our rating. If you have a loss, you should first seek coverage under the guarantee or the premiums may double . If you have tow claims , you might be able to keep this insurance.
You never want to file small claims.
1. Airbnd confirmed the losses I claimed were all covered lossed . Ther is no issue here
2 You may care if you have two claims in three years and have to purchase high risk homeowners insurance. You want to call your agent .
2. I have preserved my rights with my insurer who has assisted.
3 Airbnb has as step-by-step process that I followed.
4. Airbnb does not have an "arbitration system" in place:. It has an arbitration clause
The American Arbitration Association i s arbitrator is a neutral third party,.
Hi @Jill914
I've never had to make a claim for anything in six years of hosting.
I am very risk adverse and vet guests carefully.
As I mentioned the police rightly see this sort of situation as a civil matter in my country so leave it to the business owner to evict guests. I have helped other hosts in this situation. We don't contact the police. We insist Airbnb cancel the booking and then (if necessary with security) ensure the guests are promptly removed.
Glad you did notify your home insurance at the time. It appeared in your initial posts that you said you only made the claim through Airbnb.
I agree with you
I went three years without a claim on three properties.
Claims are to be avoided and guests that raise a red flag do not get the benefit to the doubt
iBTW if you file claim an homewners- expect your auto and other insurance to go up. The underwriting is linked