How would you review guests you suspect turned off the WiFi so outdoor cameras were off?

[Sandra947]

I was very upfront with this guest who had no reviews (prior to accepting the reservation) that this is my second home and very special to me so I expect compliance with all rules.  My listing indicates I have cameras outside and I make it clear to my guests that I have an alarm system.

Guest notified me they'd arrive late (~1 am) because the son allegedly had a college entrance exam during the day and then they had a long drive.  My cameras showed a family of four arriving around 1 am so I was not worried.

Since their arrival, I have not received any notifications from the camera so I checked and the camera signal was not connected.  That prompted me to check the smart thermostat -- also not connected to WiFi.  When I logged into my internet provider online to remotely reboot the WiFi, it could not connect to my modem and said to verify if it was plugged in.

I contacted the guest.  Guest claimed tv and internet were working just fine.  I did not believe them and asked them to unplug and manually reboot the modem.  They claimed to do so.  Hours later or the next day, the thermostat was connected to WiFi, but cameras still were not.  The situation stayed like this for 2 days and now (on their last full day), the WiFi appears to be off again.

Given that this is just a 4 night stay, my house is an hour drive away, I don't have the energy to go there on a weeknight to confront them in person about the WiFi being off and camera receptor disconnected from the modem -- particularly since they leave tomorrow morning.

Curious what people would put in the review.  Often, if there is an issue, I'll put "Additional feedback was provided privately" in the public comments if I don't want to embarass someone.  Unless they leave "evidence" (by leaving the camera receptor unplugged), I'm hesitant to accuse them of unplugging the WiFi in the public comments but wonder how others would handle this situation.

I'd also be curious to know how you'd score them -- rule following?  communication?  would you host them again?  

[Brian2036]

@Suzanne302 @Sandra947 

That was what I was thinking but I didn’t want to create any more stress for the host.

 I would have been sweating it out, wondering if they had rented a moving van and looted the house.

That was popular in Phoenix when I lived there in the 70’s.

In many of the suburban neighborhoods everyone was at work or in school during the day. Thieves would park a truck in the driveway, break in, and strip the house completely.

If a neighbor even noticed, they invariably told the police that they thought the people must have moved without telling anyone.

[Helen427]

Hello @Sandra947 and welcome to ABB CC.

Sometimes outages are also caused through the systems providers in other countries.

We are aware for instance where the German SAP system has outages which some use here in NZ and other internet access is fine.

It pays to be mindful also that weather can and does contribute to outages.

What has the weather been like where your home is?
We often see reports in the USA where as an example the snow or rain has caused outages in XYZ and it may surprise some those outages also can and do happen simultaneously in other countries.

Check first and see if there's been any tampering and ask neighbours to see if there was any unusual unacceptable behaviour.

Also do the sniff test to see if any chemical smells etc exist that shouldn't.

All the best

[Sandra947]

Thanks for the reply but your feedback isn’t relevant to the situation I’ve described. The service provider was not having an outage.

The guests left this morning and must have plugged the modem back in right before they headed out. The smart thermostat started reading again within minutes of their notification to me that they were leaving. I also was able to log in to my internet account and surprise, surprise, my provider could now connect and I even could have it remotely reboot the modem. 

I have yet to go check on things but suspect they neglected to plug the cameras receiver and PartySquasher receiver back into the modem.

[Pat271]

@Sandra947  You don’t connect your local devices to your remote Wi-Fi.

This might help with understanding on how everything is typically hooked up:

If your provider can’t connect to your modem, that means that your entire network is inaccessible from your provider’s point of view - thermostat, noise sensors, the network your guests use to connect their devices, etc. It is questionable that the guest disconnected the very device that allows them to use your Wi-Fi.

The only nefarious possibility that makes sense is that the guest disconnected the control interface, shown above. In my properties, this is a Z-wave controller that is internal to my thermostat, but you can also have the controller as a separate device somewhere else in the house.

However, that would not explain your provider not being able to connect to your modem - that is a problem that is wider in scope than just not being able to connect to your smart devices. Your modem in your property is “in the way” so to speak, of any Wi-Fi or hard-wired connection to any of the devices using it - both your devices and your guests phone, iPad, etc.

Have you tried calling your provider, to see if they have further info in their logs? That can sometimes be helpful. You can also try calling the company that is controlling your smart devices, although it doesn’t seem as if that is where the bottleneck is.

[Sandra947]

See my reply to Helen. It’s obvious to me that they unplugged the modem during the majority of their stay which means WiFi was out so the cameras and smart thermostat could not connect. They turned the modem on for a few hours during the middle of the stay and turned it back off, before then turning it back on right before leaving.

The cameras connect to the WiFi using a receiver connected to the modem and there is also a dongle that plugs into the modem for PartySquasher.

WiFi needs to be working for the smart thermostat to work.

[Linda108]

As to your original question regarding the review, I would not add language that suggests the guests did anything wrong or underhanded unless you have direct proof which you might get when you or your representative visit the site.  Even then, you risk either being wrong and hurting an innocent guest or being right and violating the Content Policy and having the review pulled.  Not having a local presence with your listing is definitely a weakness in this situation even though you have taken steps to allow a virtual presence and monitoring.  

[Kelly149]

just another thread that highlights that an abb space must be setup to the lowest common denominator. If your entire house monitoring ability hinges on one piece of equipment,then guests cannot have access to that piece of equipment. @Sandra947  read up on what would get a review pulled and write with those parameters in mind.

hopefully, all is well once you arrive back home

[Kelly149]

Thinking about this more, I am utterly flummoxed that a family of 4 could survive for any period of time without WiFi. This is a true anomaly 

[Brian2036]

@Kelly149 

I really don’t understand most of this electronic stuff because it was just science fiction when I was a kid.

But isn’t there a way to bring your own WiFi thingy with you? Or hijack a close neighbors system?

[Sarah977]

@Brian2036  Anyone can connect to Wifi by using the hot spot tethering option on their phone and their own data plan.

[Brian2036]

@Sarah977 

Thanks for the information.  I thought there was something like that, and I had heard of tethering, but I thought that was something you did when to keep your milch goat from eating the rose bushes. 😉

[Laura2592]

@Sandra947please  update us about what happens with this one. I am genuinely curious. Hope it all turns out well.

[Sandra947]

UPDATE:  So when I went to the house, it was exactly as I'd expected.  The signal device that is connnected to the modem and connects to the outside  cameras using WiFi was unplugged from the electric outlet in the wall.  Before they'd left, they likely plugged the modem back into the wall because the smart thermostat started working again moments after they texted to say they'd left.  They likely forgot to plug the camera power back in.

The difficulty is that many other things during their stay were great.  They left my house clean, linens stripped, all doors locked, dishwasher empty, and sent me a very nice, long text message upon departure saying how much they'd enjoyed the stay, neighbors were friendly, that they'd tidied up and also left me a box of chocolates as a gift.  During their stay, they also communicated that an arm on an adirondack chair had broken -- this was a pre-existing issue from another guest and my repair job had failed. 

Aside from shutting off the modem/WiFi, the only other issues were not resetting the thermostat upon departure to my requested higher setting (thankfully I could fix that myself remotely because they'd turned the modem back on) and failing to ensure the outside trash can lid was locked in place by the handles which is necessary to keep wildlife out (thankfully no animals had gotten into it yet).

They mentioned in their text message that they hope to return again sometime in the future.  They have already submitted a review.

What I'm weighing is whether to just review and say the good things but, as @Laura2592 suggested, perhaps include a reference to my concern about WiFi outages during their stay but that they did not have complaints. 

Then as to private comments, do I mention my concerns at all?  I'm torn.  On the one hand, maybe they have no idea the amount of stress they caused me during their stay by turning the modem/WiFi and outside cameras off.  It really stressed me out not being able to see if other people were being snuck into the house and that they'd left the camera off upon departure so my home was less protected than ususal when it is unoccupied.  If I say nothing, they will likely continue to unplug things and think that's acceptable.  On the other hand, perhaps they unplugged the cameras to plug in a gaming device and turned off the WiFi so they'd automatically connect to their hotspot (just trying to think of innocent reasons).  And is the comment about the WiFi enough to signal to them that this was an unusual practice ?  As to them returning, I feel like people make vague statements about returning and often don't follow through.  If they were to request to stay with me again, I could address this point then by noting that my rules have been amended to require the modem and other devices remain on during their stay.  

Alternatively, I could wait until 3 days have elapsed so that they cannot change their review and then reach out and ask if they had unplugged the modem and cameras for a reason.  I could explain that I was asking because I pride myself in providing a good experience to my guests and would like to know if they had concerns.  That seems very confrontational though so I'm not sure about going that route; however, having answers in advance might inform whether I say I'd welcome them back or not.  Right now, I lean towards a conditional yes -- only if they acknowledged and expressly agreed that they will leave the modem/WiFi on during their stay.  But of course the options are binary (yes/no).

I find it very interesting that during their stay, all communications with me were via text.  Given that I have all the text messages from them, I could upload them to Airbnb's website if there had been a dispute but it was another oddity that could have been due to them turning the modem off or lack of experience.  As others have noted, I think it is highly probable they were using a cell phone as a hot spot or had their own hot spot.  Depending on what you do for a living, a lot of businesses provide them to their employees.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Happy to answer questions if the details above are incomplete.

[Laura2592]

@Sandra947I am sorry but I would not want these guests back.

I have heard of situations where entire places have been cleaned out with cameras unplugged. Though the way they left your space makes you feel confident that the guests were decent, they did not follow ABB or house rules. Communication should always be through the ABB app in the event that a dispute arises.  Cameras unplugged could mean they had a party or engaged in some kind of illegal or undesirable activity. We had a guest throw an unsanctioned party recently and there was no evidence of it afterward, but they did disturb neighbors, violate many house rules and were caught on camera.

If these guests are merely upset at the possibility of surveillance they need to find another listing that doesn't have cameras. Don't be seduced by the possibility of more money on a future stay. For all you know they were casing your place to bring the truck and load up next time. This could have been a test to see how much of a fuss you would make.

I would definitely want to know if a guest was this sneaky. I think you owe it to other hosts to mention the WiFi issue in the review. I would wait until the last minute to review and then say something like what I suggested prior. But that is me. Not all spaces are a fit for all guests. If these folks are camera shy, many others can help them out.

I would say also via private feedback "I am glad you enjoyed your stay. Unfortunately unplugging the wifi so that the cameras and thermostat are not available are violations of our house rules. As a remote host I need to be confident that I can secure and heat/cool my space if I am not onsite. You can filter out listings that have external cameras for future stays on Airbnb."

[Colleen253]

@Sandra947 You and others have put forth innocent reasons why these guests may have  unplugged things. Because you don’t have proof of nefarious intent, and overall the guests and the stay and the condition of the house were otherwise normal/reasonably good, I would leave it. Chalk it up to a learning experience, as you’ve now updated your house rules regarding this issue. If future guests were to do the same thing going forward, then that would be a clear cut case of rules broken. 

As to the other small issues of trash can etc, well, guests never get that stuff 100% right, and I don’t know about you, but if guests are overall great, I let the small things slide.