Is a dispute worth it?

[Sarah4086]

My family (me, my husband, our 2 year old son and our 6 month old baby) stayed for a month at a woman's house in France. She had divided the (large) house into two apartments: the bottom, which she rented out, and the top, her own personal space. This woman is never in town, and had her neighbor welcome us.

When we arrived however there was a gas leak, and her neighbor told us how to go upstairs (through a hidden outdoor entrance), so that we could stay there until a plumber could come and fix the leak. We stayed up there for two days.

When the plumber came and fixed the leak, the host messaged me and said, "so sorry about the inconvenience, glad to hear that now you can fully enjoy the house, as the plumber fixed the leak. But if you prefer, you can also stay in my upstairs apartment, it is a different style (compared to downstairs). You can also take anything from upstairs if you prefer to stay downstairs."

I took this message to mean that she had authorized us to go upstairs and downstairs, especially as the upstairs was now open. So I removed the wood plank that she had used to block the stairs inside the house between the downstairs and upstairs, and me and the baby slept upstairs while my husband and our toddler slept downstairs.

Fast forward a month - after we leave - and this woman starts sending me angry messages saying that she never authorized me to use both the upstairs and downstairs, that in her message she meant I could CHOOSE (all caps!) between the two, not 'take both.' She is angry (apparently) because the team she had sent to clean the place apparently spent 6 hours cleaning the downstairs and 6 hours the upstairs - so she's claiming that they sent her a 250 euro cleaning bill!

I don't know how this is possible, first of all, 250 euros is crazy, especially since we cleaned before leaving (not a professional-level job, but we emptied the trash, did the dishes, stripped the sheets, cleaned the kitchen). I have no idea what this 'cleaning team' was doing for 12 hours (!!) 'cleaning' this house (which is admittedly huge - 350 square meters).

So she wants me to pay this cleaning bill, plus who knows (?) because she requested 500 euros from me via AirBnB! She's claiming I 'broke' the partition that she had had installed for 200 euros between her downstairs and upstairs - when all I did was remove two planks of wood and put them in another room! She's trying to charge me 100 euros for that alone! 

She also yelled at me on the phone for using 'an excessive amount of sheets' (??) and for finding a hat of hers that had been upstairs downstairs (she claims this is 'going through her personal belongings). 

In any case, needless to say, I am furious about this whole thing, and I think she should be barred from renting on AirBnB. 

Her neighbor suggested I pay her 200 euros to avoid a dispute on AirBnB. 

Personally, I don't think I should give her any money at all! All I'd like to give her is a bad review..

What should I do?!? Help!!

[Gordon0]

If guest had arrived in my place to find a gas leak, I'd be bending over backwards for them, despite it being beyond my control.

While there's been a pretty significant breakdown in communications, getting stroppy with you isn't the answer, and the host should know better, especially considering this was a month-long booking. 

As for a $300 cleaning charge for a huge house - sounds pretty much like what you'd pay in Manhattan (plus tip!)...but I don't think it's warranted under the circumstances.

[Sarah4086]

Ok, thank you. I do want to get other hosts opinions on the matter, to see if they (you) think I am in fact responsible for this extra cleaning fee. 

It does in fact seem that the crux of the matter is the message she sent me (which is in French). 

This is what it says: "Bonjour Sarah je ne sais pas si vous avez croisé la personne mais quelqu'un est venu: il suffisait de fermer la cuve du fioul.
Je suis soulagée que vous puissiez profiter pleinement de la maison,
Mais si vous préférez mon petit appartement douillet vous pouvez y rester aussi.
C'est un autre style de vie, sinon prenez tout ce qu'il vous faut de cet appartement pour améliorer votre confort.
Cordialement,
Sophie"

passed through Google translate:

"Hello Sarah, I don't know if you passed the person, but someone came: all you had to do was close the oil tank. I am relieved that you can fully enjoy the house, But if you prefer my cozy little apartment, you can stay there too. It's a different lifestyle, otherwise take everything you need from this apartment to improve your comfort. Cordially, Sophie"

I did show this message to a few (French) friends, and they did say that they would have understood the message like I did. However, I do think it is ambiguous, unclear - but should I be held responsible for that?

[Laura2592]

@Sarah4086 you both had and opportunity to clarify. Neither did. There is a language barrier and miscommunication here, nothing more.  The reaction to it and urge to punish the other party is the issue.  

Since you may both be upset and a good review is unlikely to happen on either side,  I'd let Airbnb sort it.  You denied the claim so they have to. 

[John5097]

For the gas leak you could have canceled the reservation and she wouldn't have received any payout. I would just forget about it, send her a message or review however you feel and move on. Even if it cost that much to clean she is the one with the gas leak who granted you access to the rest of the house. You could have flagged it for the gas leak and ABB could verify that it isn't a hazard. The rest is a communication issue and the host just confusing. You could request a refund for the two nights you didn't stay in the apartment with the gas leak. You never booked someone's personal space. Creepy. 

[John5097]

@Sarah4086 

I think everyone missed this part of the story. 

"When we arrived however there was a gas leak, and her neighbor told us how to go upstairs (through a hidden outdoor entrance), so that we could stay there until a plumber could come and fix the leak. We stayed up there for two days." 

So it already needed to be cleaned. You didn't create any additional mess that you mentioned. Sometimes guest can be very greasy, cook greasy food, especially with kids, and ruin linens. If you used both kitchens and left greasy mess, I could understand host being upset. That's a real tough example, but you didn't say that, so based on your account you shouldn't pay any extra cleaning fees. 

[Laura2592]

@John5097  I didn't miss that part of the story. The upstairs seems to be a separate unit (maybe the host's private apartment?) The guest got there and was told of the danger/given instructions on another space to stay. 

The gas leak got corrected. The host meant to say "well stay in the space you are already in, or move to the new one" essentially (again, miscommunication and I understand how the guest was unclear.) The guest thought the host meant "Stay in the entire house." 

The guest's account is all we have. There are facts that seem undisputed. The guests used a lot of beds and linens. The guest has small kids. The host was unhappy with the amount of clean up. Guest and host misunderstood what was offered. I can't say I fully buy the OP's account. I think there are 2 sides to this story. But I can agree that neither party should have approached this by being nasty. And I don't think what the host is asking for in terms of compensation is totally beyond the pale for turning over an entire very large house with laundry for multiple beds, kitchens etc. 

[John5097]

@Laura2592  I think the gas leak was the host responsibility, and the host put the guest in her private space not the apartment the guest rented. I also mentioned we only have what the guest has said. A gas leak is a safety issue and not just an inconvenience. The guest wasn't asking for a refund.  If Airbnb were contatated when this happened they likely would have canceled the reservation as its such a dangerous situation. It was the host responsibility to change the reservation details and make it very clear, which they failed to do. 

[Laura2592]

@John5097 I agree that the gas leak was the hosts's issue. I would have probably relocated the group and foregone the payout. But gas leaks and suicides did not seem to be a deterrent to this guest. She isn't complaining about that.

She is complaining that the host was not clear about the use of space and that the host wants extra money for turning over more than she expected. And to that I say they both had an equal responsibility to clarify what the rest of the stay would entail. 

[John5097]

@Laura2592 

I agree that the reservation should have been canceled. Although I think its the host responsibility to understand the risk involved and to better understand Airbnb policy for a situation like this. It wasn't safe for the guest to be in any part of the house for two days. However, the host should have altered or canceled the two nights that the apartment the guest rented. Then the two days in the host place didn't have a listing or any details such as cleaning fees. Not the guest fault. The whole part about the next door neighbor knowing a secret entrance is also suspicious, as if this may have happened before. The guest really shouldn't have been put in someone's private space with their personal belongings then accuse them of going though their things. If its just a one time thing and a miss understanding the host shouldn't be making such a fuss about it as its all her responsibility. We also don't know if the cleaners were exagerating to make a little extra. Even if there was some extra grease and linens that's part of hosting and there really is no good excuse for a gas leak either. I think Airbnb should be notified to make sure this isn't an ongoing issue. 

[Laura2592]

@John5097 yeah I am still not 100% clear on what the arrangement was with the host's home vs the other unit. 

I don't think its odd to have a "secret" entrance. A lot of old places that are converted have creative uses of space.

I do think its weird that a host would put someone in their space instead of canceling during a gas leak. I also think its weird that a guest with little ones would AGREE to stay somewhere with an active health hazard. 

I think its odd that a host would put someone in a personal space and not tell the guest explicitly what was on and off limits. I also think its weird a guest would assume that it was okay to touch a host's obviously personal stuff without asking "hey is it okay for me to wear your hat?"

I don't think its weird that a guest would assume a host would allow them full use of the house to make up for a problem. I do think its weird that during that full use of the house they would experience a traumatic event (and WITNESS it!) and not ask to be moved, but just pick another room to stay in. Again, small impressionable kids are part of this stay.

I don't think its weird that a host would ask for extra clean up money. I do think its weird that the guest would focus on how much money the host wanted rather than any of the other very bizarre, unsafe and horrible things that happened during the stay.  It does give me some good ideas for a short fiction tale though!

This whole situation makes me happy I am not an ABB CS agent.

[Sarah4086]

Well in my defense, I did focus on the very horrible thing that happened during our stay for a very long time, the entire rest of the stay, but that really has nothing to do with the host nor ABB. I did want to leave initially, but where exactly were we supposed to go? 

Thankfully our babies were not around for the suicide itself, they did witness the police and ambulances coming, and the wife screaming and crying, and many many people gathering... but they were much too young to know what was happening. My son (almost 2) just thought the whole thing was very exciting, as he loves police cars and ambulances!

The gas leak was obviously an issue for us, but considering the layout of the house, and its size, I didn't think the gas would be an issue if we were upstairs.

This is a very large old (like 18th century) chalet, and most of the second floor is a huge unconverted barn (where the animals used to live, presumably?), and that is the area connected to the downstairs. To get to the other apartment, you have to go around the barn and up more stairs to the host's private apartment. Keep in mind this is as 4000 square foot house, with this huge barn essentially separating one living space from the other.

If that explains things..

[John5097]

@Laura2592 

@Sarah4086  seems like a reasonable person. My take on it was she didn't like the angry all caps messages. 

The bottom line is guest has zero obligaion to pay extra cleaning fees for an apartment (host living space) that guest didn't book and isn't on Airbnb listing. 

The host knew the guest had 5 year old who probably found a hat laying around. 

[Laura2592]

@John5097 I have a totally different read on this entire situation lol. I think both parties are being a bit emotional and could stand to take a step back and accept some responsibility. It would be great if there could be a solution that worked for both. With the drama of this stay, I would be inclined to put it behind me. It just seems like there were a lot of missed opportunities to create understanding. 

[John5097]

@Laura2592 sending guest angry all caps messages isn't necessary and could be violation of Airbnb policy. The fact is that host can't charge cleaning for a unit that isn't on Airbnb. Now that host has submitted extra funds though the resolution center, guest should also bring these other issues to CS attention, and they will be able to resolve it as they can see all the communication. I'm not here to hijack the narrative or claim people's experiences for myself either. Anyway, guest seems like the reasonable one here, paid in full, and worked with host about gas leak, and host is acting unhinged. 

[Laura2592]

@John5097 

This is the only thing I see about all caps:

"that in her message she meant I could CHOOSE (all caps!) between the two, not 'take both.' "

She emphasized one word, the way I read it. Which may have been done to make very clear the expectation (after the fact, yes.) I sometimes emphasize words in emails or my house rules to make it very apparent. I don't think that makes me "unhinged."

I don't see an unreasonable host in terms of asking for more clean up money. I see a host and a guest who totally came from different directions at the same piece of information and never bothered to check in to see if their perception was accurate. I see a guest who is asking for opinions, and as more of the truly dramatic story comes out, certain facts seem to float to the top of the narrative as the basic problem, which involves miscommunication.

There are details that each of us seize upon, and some things that seem to bother the OP more than others, but at the heart of it is just a big misunderstanding, not helped by a language barrier.  I do hope they can resolve it to both their satisfaction.