Need to do a mini-rant

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

Well......Henry just called me........FUMING........to let me know when he stepped out of his study around 11:30pm to go to the kitchen for some food, he was almost blinded by EVERY SINGLE LIGHT BLAZING in the kitchen + living room with our current guest sprawled on the sofa watching a movie on his laptop. Dishes from the dinner he cooked and ate (several hrs ago) were still piled up in the sink and because he didn't wash the coffee cup properly before setting it on the dish drying rack there was a ginormus coffee stain on the drip dry rack where we place CLEAN dishes. 

Henry isn't really a talker or a people person (I usually handle this part of the hosting responsibilities) and he told me he didn't trust himself to be "nice" so he just took a "lead by example" approach by turning all the lights in the kitchen off, turned off half of the lights in the living room, placed the dirty coffee cup back in the sink with the guest's other dirty dishes, cleaned the stain on the dish rack....... then got a bag of chips and a beer which he took back to the study........ and then he ranted while I listened. (I've been totally swamped at work and wasn't able to go home this weekend..... boohoo~) 

Henry's last words today......... I'd rather we have an empty room for 4 months than host another european male in his 20s ever again~!!!!!!! 

I can't say I blame him. Sigh~~~~~~~~

Mini-rant over. 

[Susie111]

I have 2 lovely boys.

l as a mum already drilling my boys how to be “independent”

To be able to take care of yourself and that means cook and pick up 

your stuff/clean up after yourself.

It’s all about your upbringing 😁

[Sarah977]

@Susie111  Good for you. It seems so many young people these days aren't expected to do anything and aren't taught any basic life skills. Mom or Dad just picks up after them, constantly. I imagine you've heard this one-"Oh, I just get so tired of nagging him to do it all the time, it's just easier to do it myself"?  Used to drive me crazy when I heard other parents say those things. Who said parenting was going to be easy? Or that it's some popularity contest where you can't handle your kids ever saying "You're so mean, I hate you!"

So Mom and Dad do everything while Junior sits around playing video games and texting with his friends, then one day when he turns 18, they expect he'll wake up one day and suddenly be a responsible adult, get his a** off the couch and find a job.

I found chores for my kids from the time they were 3. Matching up the pile of shoes that get kicked off at the door and lining them up neatly is a perfect chore for a 3 year old.

[Huma0]

@Sarah977 

My parents worked a lot when we were kids and never had any home help. From our early teens, my brother and I were expected to do our own laundry and to frequently cook for ourselves too, never mind sort out our dishes. While our friends spent Saturday mornings watching MTV, we had to clean the house, and I mean really clean it. Turning off lights was just normal. We were also given a small montly allowance, which had to cover clothes, records, going out, holidays etc. 

Somehow though, my brother and I turned out to be very different people when were 18 or even in our twenties. I supported myself from the age of 18, whereas my brother was still being funded by my parents (and then his wife) until he was about 30. I had part-time and holiday jobs from age 14 to pay for driving lessons, travels, whatever, but my brother quit his first Saturday job after one day because they asked him to do cleaning and didn't get another job until his twenties. He couldn't cook at all when he left home.

I think the problem is that, although my parents had the same rules for both of us, they did not make my brother stick to them. He would spend his allowance, ask for an advance, but not buy any clothes so my mother would end up feeling sorry for him and buy him new clothes anyway. My mother would keep his fridge stocked while he was at uni and when he came home to visit, he would never lift a finger (left overs left in front of the TV for my mum to clear away).

Luckily, in his second year of university, he moved into a house (rent free as it was owned by my parents) with a girlfriend and she housetrained him. She told him if he thought she would be doing all the cooking, he had another thought coming! Now he's a great cook, his house is always clean and he's a responsible husband and father and university lecturer. Funnily enough, my niece has been brought up to pick up after herself from a very young age. He still leaves all the lights on though...

[Sarah977]

@Huma0  Don't get me started on mothers and their sons. They expect far different things from their daughters than the son, who can do no wrong. A Mexican man could axe murder an entire village full of women and children and his mother would get up on the stand, asserting what a good boy he is, and that he just fell in with the wrong crowd.

When I see my friends making all kinds of allowances and special treatment for their sons, I tell them they aren't doing either their sons or the young women their sons are going to want to have as girlfriends, any favors. I've often been amazed that the mothers really had no idea that they were catering to their sons in a different way than their daughters.

[Huma0]

@Sarah977 

Yes, I think many others don't even realise they are treating heir sons and daughters differently. My parents certainly tried to bring us up the same, with the same rules and with the ethos that men and women are equal. But, we certainly were treated differently in many ways. My mother seems astonished when I remind her of examples of this. She certainly didn't realise it at the time, but can see now that it was true!

There are also a lot of cultural issues to consider. In Pakistan, boys do not lift a finger in the home, but girls are usually housetrained. However, most upper class and upper middle class families have servants, so the girls can be just as bad. When my cousin got married, initially his wife moved in with him and his mum. This girl had been living away from home at college, but as soon as she was in her mother-in-law's apartment, she 'order' her dinner preference before going to work and throw her clothes on the floor when she got home, knowing they would be picked up, washed, ironed and put away. 

[Robin4]

@Susie  @Jessica-and-Henry0  @Cathie19  @Ann72 

Susie, you know what girls are like, they can be worse than boys at cleaning up!

The first time I ever saw Adrienne's bedroom you could not see a square inch of floor! It was totally covered with clothes, shoes and bags. A sight I will never forget!

When my girls each got to 10 years old I hung a new dustpan set from their bedroom door handle with a note on it that said. "I can't clean up after everyone, mum's a full time job! You might find this useful"! We had a laugh, but it got the point across, and they were not bad after that...

I sort of wish I did have the opportunity to clean up after them once in a while now!

Cheers......Rob

[Robin4]

@Sandra 

Thank god you didn't hint to him that the odd rump steak might be a reasonable dinner offering!

Cheers......Rob

[Yulianna0]

@Jessica-and-Henry0, there is a bit of hope in young ones, they still can be educated. Just imagine having an adult fellow hanging his underwear on top of your personal face towel... 

I hope you could talk to your guest seriously. I know that some young Europeans are just served by their parents and have zero experience in taking care of themselves... 

[Huma0]

@Yulianna0,

The problem is that I don't think it's the host's repsonsibility to educate, 'bring up' or house train these kids. We are not (at least I am not) being paid enough for that! Also, it can be very awkward to be constantly telling your guest to not do this or the other (as I am currently experiencing). However, I think you are right that when these situations do occur, we need to find a way to talk to the guests about it, especially if they are staying long-term.

I have tried and tried with my current guest (young male student in his early twenties who lives with his grandparents back home), but I find it stressful. I have told him to leave the stove in a decent state and not to leave the lights on all day and evening when he is out, but I have not had the courage to talk to him about the poo streaks on the toilet!

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Huma0 

Yup...... Henry and I both have younger sisters and cousins so we kinda know how it is sharing living space with others who have different ideas of what "cleaning up" entails. This is one of the reasons why our listing description is so long and detailed and also why we insist on handling sheets & towel laundry, trash disposal, and weekly vaccums ourselves. 

When we kindly remind guests to turn lights off or turn the overhead vent on when they cook or to make sure they don't leave coffee stains on counter tops or dish rack..... all we want is a genuine "I'm sorry, I'll try harder to remember/do a better job" and just really want them to try.......rather than shrug it off with a "yeah~yeah~ no biggie~ I hear ya~ whatever~" turn around, completely forget/disregard what we just said, and make a point of NOT turning off the light or leave an even BIGGER stain than before even though we JUST reminded them. 

Sigh~

And it really isn't the host's responsibility to teach guests basic manners. 

[Huma0]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 

I also wouldn't be very happy with a ""yeah~yeah~ no biggie~ I hear ya~ whatever~"

With short-term guests it's not usually worth having a conversation about cleanliness. You just grin and bear it knowing they will soon be gone! With long-term guests, as you know, these issues need to be addressed. In my case, it's doubly important because I have a combination of short and long-term guests staying at the same time, and don't need my cleanliness ratings being tanked as a result.

You are right that attitude really matters.. If a guest is apologetic for leaving a mess, it becomes less of a big deal. My messiest long-termer was a 28-year-old English girl. She had been living abroad for several years so I have no idea how she could be so un-housetrained and I dread to think what her own place looked like.

The first time I washed her sheets and towels, they were caked in so much make up,  I decided to replace them with not so new, not so fancy ones, as the new ones were going to get trashed. She kept putting off my offers to clean her room, so it was only when she left after three months that I saw the full extent of the squalor! I won't go into all the details, but let's say that even the scatter cushions and the insides of the drawers were covered in chilli sauce or something similar and there were pots of houmous that were ready to walk out of there on their own!

The thing is, she was a really lovely girl and very considerate in every other way, always double checking if this or that was okay. I think she had no idea how untidy she was. If she left a really bad mess in a communal area, I would mention it to her and she would apologise and clean it up.

One time, she asked if it was okay to have a guest for dinner. I was truly shocked at the state the stove was left in. I'm not talking about a bit of oil, but the whole thing was swimming one inch thick with sauce. It took me two hours to clean. I  said nothing. She had obviously cooked way too much and the leftovers sat in a large tupperware container for weeks. I wondered what on earth it would smell like if opened!

Well, I soon found out because she emptied the whole lot straight into the outside bin without a bag or liner. You cannot imagine the state of that bin.  I mean who does this? She comes from the UK, she must surely know that's not how you dispose of food! Anyway, she was informed, was very apologetic and when I armed her with gloves, a bucket and mop etc. she cleaned it all out. She said she no idea what she had been thinking when throwing it in there.

To be honest, she deserved a very low cleanliness rating, but I gave her 4 stars, and 5 overall and for everything else, because her nice attitude made up for the mess.

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@Jessica-and-Henry0Its karma... we hosted a loooot Korean girls who left all lights on while they were out... not to mention water all over the bathroom :))))))

I prefer young guests over middle aged so we can exchange them, I'll give you grumpy oldies and you send me millennials hehe

[Robin4]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 

Hey Jess, I am sorry for you and Henry, I can just imagine Henry stomping around the place, all the time muttering to himself..."Why in the hell are we doing this"??

Jess, we are all a bit different, we each have our own perceptions and expectations. 

I know my house could be cleaner....not the listing cottage, I go out of my way to make sure that sparkles, but in the main house I can be less than a perfect cleaner/housekeeper. But Jess I have such a sh*tload going on in my life! There is nothing that I can leave in the hands of someone else so I guess I have over the years learned not to sweat the small stuff. I prioritise what is most important to be done and the rest....well I will get around to it.

I say this guys because, I have a foot in both camps and I can see both points of view.

If this guy is a new guest probably best to just gently say ...."We have what to some might seem to be odd cultural standards, which you will no doubt learn while you are here. But as you can see we are not extravegant with our resources. One, we can't afford to be, and two, this is our upbringing. Please try to keep not just your space, but ours as well tidy, clean as you go, and use only lights as you need them and give them a rest when you dont"! 

Something like that might give the guest the hint that you are not happy with the way he is treating your property....best no to get too heavy handed in the first instance. Some guests are probably not even aware, their reaction is, "well I I am paying for this I can't do what I like!" 

All the best Jess.

Cheers.......Rob

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Robin4 @Sarah977 @Yulianna0 @Branka-and-Silvia0 @Sandra126 @Gordon0  @Ann72 @Donald @Marit-Anne0 @Susie111 @Rebecca181 

Thanks everyone 🙂 I know..... and Henry knows...... lights blazing isn't the end of the world but I think there were a mix of things that were really starting to get on Henry's nerves. 

We host a lot of exchange students so most of our guests have always been in their early 20s. Sure there were individual differences in terms of cleanliness, water/electricity saving efforts among all guests regardless of age and nationality but for some reason, our 20s male guests from europe  act like immature teenagers with an attitude problem. (seriously~ who raises these ogres?!?!?!?!) 

I'll have a nice chat with him this coming weekend over coffee...... I usually make a point of having a conversation with the guest on weekends I am home to catch up, ask if they need anything and what not.........although I hope he'll get the hint I honestly doubt there will be much change.......THANKFULLY he's busy with school and an internship so during the week he isn't home much 🙂 

[Ann72]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 Up until now I assumed the kid was American.  🙂