Would you book a rental with security cameras in communal areas?

[Marcus237]

I'm curious to know from people who say they wouldn't rent at a property with security cameras in the common areas (kitchens/living rooms), do you normally book an entire house?

And if you do, would you find cameras in these places to be more reasonable if someone had a 6 bedroom mansion with several full bathrooms, a jacuzzi, and multiple living rooms, where they rented out each of 5 bedrooms separately, and they themselves stayed in the 6th?

I feel like cameras in the common areas in this case provides security, safety, and accountability not only for the homeowner, but also for the other guests who are staying on a property with strangers that they don't know.

I'm considering putting my place on airbnb to do just that, but I don't want to alienate customers. That said, the price to rent the entire property would likely be prohibitive to most people, so I think I'd have more success renting individual private luxury rooms with access to beautiful, high end common areas. But in doing so, having multiple groups of strangers staying in a single place, I'd think having security cameras to provide accountability would be of the utmost importance. Otherwise, if people break things in the common areas or even steal another guest's property, you'd have no idea who would be accountable for it, and guests may even attempt to hold the host responsible.

What are your thoughts, hosts and guests?

[Anonymous]

@Marcus237  I don't know if you're aware of the several incidents in the news where Airbnb hosts have gotten caught spying on their guests with hidden cameras, but you'll see in a quick Google search - it's a thing, guests are very sensitive about it; Airbnb is wary of bad press and will instantly suspend a listing if a guest even suggests there might have been improper surveillance (even if it's fully disclosed in the listing).

As for the "creep factor" - yes, of course I have been inside US hotels and thousands of other buildings with security cameras. But people assume a certain degree of anonymity when on camera in hotel lobbies and other public or semi-public spaces. We don't think of the video being actively viewed by someone who knows us personally. However, when we choose homes over hotels, we have different expectations of privacy. The idea that the host who lives onsite can covertly record video of you  while you're sitting in the jacuzzi, or listen in on you while you're chatting with your partner over breakfast, is invasive to a degree that makes your home amenities seem profoundly unappealing. And, yes, creepy. You live in a state with more guns than people; how are you prepared to explain to a dude with a gun why you might possess a video of his daughter or girlfriend outside in her swimsuit?

[Marcus237]

@AnonymousThe Jacuzzi isn't in an area where there would be a camera. It's in the private bathroom of the master bedroom, so no one would be filmed using it. Also, it is illegal in this state and most others to record audio on security cameras, so none of my cameras would be recording conversations.  Furthermore, I wouldn't be hoarding videos of guests or storing them online. It's a business, with easily visible, fully disclosed security cameras for business purposes. I would likely set the cameras to record and retain video for 48 hours only. So, as long as nothing is damaged or stolen during that time frame, the video footage would be automatically deleted after 48 hours. As far as a guy with a gun: As you pointed out, I live in a state with more guns than people. To assume most homeowners don't have a gun themselves would be erroneous. Many small business owners in this state go to work daily with a holstered firearm visible on them. Going to someone else's highly secure house visibly armed with the intention of conflict would be an enormous mistake, so I wouldn't expect it to happen. If it did, I'd speak to the person via intercomm about what they wanted, and call the police if they refused to leave peacefully. If they attempted to force their way into my home before the police arrive, I'd protect myself.

@Helen427It is against airbnb's TOS to have cameras in bedrooms, and I personally agree with this policy. It is creepy, and a major privacy violation to have a camera in a bedroom or bathroom, and I'd never do something like that. I am strictly considering cameras in the common areas for the protection of my home, my assets, and my guests. I already have external security cameras all over the property so I can see who is coming and going from every angle of my home.

[Chill-and-Relax0]

(..) how are you prepared to explain to a dude with a gun why you might possess a video of his daughter or girlfriend outside in her swimsuit?

The same way as to the guy with an ax, baseball bat, knife, bottle of battery acid, brass knuckle, crowbar, shank, machete, or a plethora of other harm-inflicting tools.

[Jennifer1421]

@Marcus237 

I've stayed in a similar property to what I think you are describing. It was a huge house and the bedrooms were rented separately, with kitchen, living spaces and bathrooms common to all. Having stayed in hostels too, it was very similar in set up. I stayed in this listing with a friend having flown in to Vancouver late at night, and we were taking a ferry to the Island in the early morning. It worked fine for us for a very brief stay.

My thoughts on it, though, are that while it was a notch or two up from the typical hostel in terms of amenities, it lacked the "soul" (I guess you could call it) that you find in hostels. Most of the hostels I've stayed in are very friendly places, where travelers hang out and swap advice and stories - the majority of the guests also tend to be young folks, which likely adds to the "fun" vibe. Perhaps it was just the location of the listing where we stayed, which was pretty obviously for overnighters, rather than anyone staying for a period of time, but there was absolutely no feeling of relaxation  or fun there. It definitely felt more anonymous and hotel-like.

Do you expect to appeal to people who stay for long periods, or just overnighters passing through? The location of your listing is obviously going to play a big part in this. I'd imagine that the type of listing you're contemplating would lend itself to one-nighters, rather than longer stays, regardless of location...unless you find a way to address the "vibe" factor. Having cameras in common spaces may inhibit this vibe, but it's entirely possible that one-nighters wouldn't care, since they may not use the common areas, except to make coffee in the morning.

I think there may well be a market for an "upscale" hostel that caters to middle-aged bargain hunters. Your marketing will need to be very on-point and specific though. I'd say your price point would need to match the expectations of budget travelers, too. I'd suggest being very aware of the number of washrooms and the amount of hot water you have the capacity to supply.

You mention adding second beds to rooms upthread. Why not? Make a couple of your larger rooms doubles to attract friends traveling together rather than couples. Leave others as single rooms.

Apologies for the long post, and if it's a bit incoherent - I'm only working on my first coffee this morning, and my brain may not be functioning properly yet 🙂

[Helen427]

@Marcus237 @Anonymous @Alice595 @Dimitar27 @Sarah977 

Great topic you have raised @Marcus237 

I live in an upmarket area where most homes have cameras in common areas and at times bedrooms  - they are there to help deter & detect burglars & common place.

The main then is that you must disclose the presence of them so (potential) guests know they are there.

I'd be inclined to also include in any booking confirmations that you include it in your msgs.

It's most unfortunate some people have encountered cameras that were on without their knowledge.

It's a little bit like when one has a business they to have cameras to protect their property.

It's not uncommon for accommodation places that have shared kitchens and living areas to have security cameras for everyone's protection even though they are intrusive  to those who may be staying in them - nothing worse than having an itch on the buttocks and feeling self conscious about having a scratch, is there?

@Marcus237

Perhaps you need to think of those little things to.

There's cameras for Africa everywhere these days that we no longer have the privacy we used to.

You may also like to consider who has access to monitoring the cameras and who has access to those images?

How long will the data be kept for etc when it comes to deciding factors?

Would you like your own mum or dad or family, children or workmates filmed in such a manner as they go about their homelife?

With Privacy Regulations and requirements constantly evolving and Europe now having strict Data Regulations we all must be mindful those people from Europe have laws to protect them regardless of where they may be in the world including as guests in your home.

[Paul154]

@Marcus237 

I rent out a 3 bedroom exactly as you are doing. One can rent the whole house w/3 bedrooms, 2 bedrooms or just one bedroom (I lock the unused bedrooms.) If I can't rent the whole house, I will rent separate bedrooms. 

It meets traveler needs very well.

I don't have an indoor camera, but I understand they can be useful.

Remove the indoor cameras when you rent the whole house. People will pay a premium for a whole house and will require privacy.

For individual bedroom, clearly mark the common surveilled areas. Put little signs up in bathrooms and bedrooms "private area"

[Inna22]

@Paul154 Can I ask you an unrelated question? After reading this thread I am thinking of doing this as well. How often do you clean the common areas, particularly the bathroom?

[Paul154]

@Inna22 

I do a good clean of the common areas whenever someone new comes. i also do a daily light cleaning of the bathroom and also straighten out any glaring problems

[Marcus238]

There is a market for everyone/everything. The best market research is commerce. "Just do it!" You'll acclamete yourself to your target market over time. 

I suggest strategically placing your indoor cameras in a manner that compliments your outdoor camera system's coverage. I suggest full surveillance disclosures in your listings and a universally accessible minitor that displays views from all indoor cameras. 

Personally, I'm comfortable with cameras in some - but not all - common areas. For me, the kitchen, garage, and any alternate entrances/exits would be most acceptable. The family room would feel impersonal if survailed. 

Like I said: just do it! Your guests will light the way. Happy hosting! 

[Ann72]

@Marcus238 I should have read your comment before posting mine!  Well said!

[LaToya16]

Best answer in my opinion!! Everyone else experience and opinion will not necessarily be yours! Each case and guest will be different. 

I have an interior camera in the kitchen. The way it sits, it monitors the back, front and garage door. I also have a living room upstairs and downstairs. If the guest doesn't like the fact that the camera is staring at them downstairs they can easily watch tv upstairs and we all get what we want. My main goal is to secure my home. So I agree, not every situation will fit everyone... " Just do it"!

[Ann72]

@Marcus237 There are people who wouldn't book a place with cameras and people who would.  People who wouldn't book a private room with shared public spaces and people who would.  Just put the listing up and give it a try.  If you don't like the outcome, change it or take it down. 

Some pointers:

*Take @Anonymous's advice and provide locks for each private room so it is less likely that one guest would steal another's property.

*Bearing in mind that many, many guests don't read "house rules," weave the rules into the "house manual."  People are self-interested and they're going to read the manual to find out about the A/C or the coffee or whatever before they're going to read the house rules that tell them what they can't do.

*You can list the whole house as well as each individual room.  Airbnb does the syncing - under "Availability," scroll down to the bottom and "Link Airbnb calendars."

*If you do rent out the whole house, you are probably right that it will be rented for an event or party.  Require event insurance for those occasions.  (Search "event insurance" on the web and you'll see what I mean.)

*In the US, it's illegal to place cameras inside a private rented space.  Check with your lawyer about this.  I don't know whether shared common spaces are different in the eyes of the law.

[Marcus237]

@Ann72 Could you cite the source for saying it's illegal to place cameras inside a private rented space in the US?

This is an area of law that is generally handled by individual states(as most laws are), so if there is a federal law about it, I'd be very interested in reading it.

[Ann72]

@Marcus237  Sure: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=security+cameras+in+private+rented+spaces

[Marcus237]

@Ann72The entire reason I asked you if you could cite the law is because it's not easy to find a federal law like that on google. As a matter of fact, if you follow your rather flippant instructions via your link, the very first link says that landlords may put cameras in common areas. The most likely reason it's difficult to find said federal law is that it doesn't exist.

The entire prospect becomes even more muddled when you consider whether or not you're even a "landlord" based on how you rent with airbnb. So far, US law has not considered airbnb hosts to be "landlords", which also means "guests" are not "tenants". So most laws governing tenant protection don't apply in a short-term rental agreement like this.