declining a group of guys

[Hollye-And-Will0]

Hi Guys, 

  I received this request today which seems to have all the red flags that have caused me trouble in the past.  Group of guys, obviously looking to party late and hard, expressing concern about the on-site manager, mention of "inappropriate guests" (which always means they want to bring dancers by) 

  How can I respectfully and honestly decline without upsetting them?  The last few times we had groups of more than 7 guys at the house there were holes in the walls and a broken couch that they denied saying they were "too stoned" to break a couch.   I understand the security can cover damages but it's such a pain to deal with damages.  It often costs us more time and money than what the damages cover.

Curious your thoughts and feedback...

"Hi,

We have a group of guys coming to Scottsdale for golf and to celebrate a birthday party at the end of April and we are very interested in staying at this home! My only concern is that I see you have someone living on the property right next to the main house. Him being there is not a concern, but we want to make sure we aren't disturbing anyone else due to noise, that is kind of why we liked the large property with privacy. We get together once a year and plan to have a good time and play golf and drink and also play the sports provided on your awesome property, but we will likely be up late or coming back from Old Town early in the morning. We will not be having any type of inappropriate guests, just the men. I am just wanting to make sure beforehand that there aren't expectations of a bed time per se. Of course we will be respectful of the property and your belongings, I am just not wanting to upset someone living on the property due to us being up late and drinking. Thank you very much! I look forward to hearing back from you!"

When I told him the property wasn't available that weekend he rudely said, "Are you allowed to discriminate based on gender or bed time?"

I didn't mention anything about his group gender, size, or bedtime...I simply said we weren't available on that weekend.  He seems edgy and rude.  I can only imagine what they would be like as renters.

Thoughts?

[Danielle476]

I would have said something to the effect of,

"Hi XXX, thanks so much for your inquiry, and your honesty.  I appreciate the thoughtfulness!  Unfortunately my home wouldn't be ideal for your event; we/they have an expectation of privacy and peace, and as such we do not allow parties.  If you'd like some recommendations for other options in the area, I'd be happy to help out.  Best of luck in your search and have a wonderful birthday celebration!"

If you've already messaged them and declined, and they've answered back with a rude response, I wouldn't even take the conversation any further.  There's no point engaging in a back and forth if you've already made up your mind.  Good luck!

[Lisa723]

@Hollye-And-Will0 I agree with @Danielle476 -- don't engage further with this guest.

I think you do run a risk of being reported for discrimination for this:  "Due to a few prior experiences, we no longer allow bachelor parties. Bachelorette parties ARE allowed." It is better to focus on behavior that is or is not allowed, not classes of people, and Airbnb does not permit discrimination based on gender except for listings sharing space in your own home. And saying that a space is not available when it shows as available in your calendar is neither convincing nor professional.

In your shoes I would remove that line, and add a rule about quiet hours, which would have given you solid and believable grounds for declining this request, based on the guest's own inquiry. You could also add NoiseAware monitors-- being sure to disclose them under "surveillance devices" (https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/887/what-are-airbnbs-rules-about-security-cameras-and-other-reco...), which should also head off people who want to be loud late at night. (Our insurer offers a premium discount for installing these).

[Pete69]

Rarely do guests over-explain themselves as this person did. When people over-explain themselves, all too often they're actually trying to HIDE something. And I've never had guests state that they're going to be doing some drinking. LOL. Are these guests under 25? If so then this is the most irresponsible and destructive demographic. I speak from experience. Unfortunately, legally you can't specifically deny guests based on age.

It's your place. Don't be afraid to say no.

[Lisa723]

@Pete69 are you sure? It's my understanding that actually you can have a minimum age to rent-- unless your locality has a specific law saying otherwise. (You can't discriminate against families with children, but that is different.)

[Sean433]

@Pete69 

Booking.com offers you the ability to select minimum age requirement of 25 or over which I have selected. So I am not sure whether age discrimination applies to rentals of homes or vehicles. Airbnb classifies it as discrimination but that is open to argument since car leasing companies do it as well as booking.com.

[Lisa723]

@Sean433 Airbnb does not classify it as discrimination. It defers to local law on this:

Airbnb hosts may not:

• Impose any different terms or conditions or decline a reservation based on the guest’s age or familial status, where prohibited by law.

So, unless your locality specifically prohibits it, you are free to impose a minimum age to rent.

[Hollye-And-Will0]

Agreed 100%.  

[Pat271]

I actually thought the original request was honest, clear, and thoughtful. I might even have approved the request. As far as being rude, yes, he was rude, and I would definitely have cooled towards him. In his defense, though, he is probably getting tired of hearing “I’m sorry, it’s not available” on houses that are clearly available. Instead, “Yes, I’m afraid the on-site manager would be annoyed with late-night noise. You might do better to continue your search. Thanks for your interest, though!”, might have disclosed the reasoning in a more straightforward manner.

[Hollye-And-Will0]

Hi Pat,

 In my experience anytime anyone has asked about the on-site property manager, we've always had a bad experience, with people trying to have unannounced parties, to strippers at the house, etc.  I'm not sure if you've had those types of experiences with your listings or if you've every hosted 8 men in one of your homes, but it's become a bit of a trigger for me.  

  Also, a rude response generally indicates a rude guest.  He had no prior renting experience and sometimes I feel it's important to read between the lines.

  Thanks for your honest feedback though.  It's been interesting to see everyone's take on this issue.

[Sean433]

@Hollye-And-Will0 

Why are you concerned about upsetting them? No matter what you say, they will be disappointed anyways.  I keep it short and just say, "sorry we are unable to host".

Why do some hosts take 5 minutes to write out a long winded reason as to why they cannot host? The less specific you are, the less likely they can accuse of discrimination anyways.

Last weekend, I had to decline 2 separate requests from all females and I just said "sorry we are unable to host". They both asked why but i did not respond because your initial response is what counts towards your response rate anyways.. The real reason was because they were local but they don't need to know that.   In my experience, whether it is all males or all females that are local and coming to have a "good time", it is usually going to end bad. Males can get aggressive and like you said punch holes in the wall, females will spill wine over my carpets and leave gross makeup residue all over my towels and linens. They are all bad when coming for such reasons and especially if they are local.

[Linda108]

While I agree with your response, @Hollye-And-Will0 , I am struck by the host outrage when Air BNB chooses not to be transparent in their decision making.  Just saying...

[Hollye-And-Will0]

I agree about the short response. 

I'm not concerned about upsetting them so much as I'm concerned about signalling some discrimination alarm. I feel it's discernment on my part.  Glad to hear other people can relate to my experiences!

[Emily487]

@Hollye-And-Will0 

I think it might help in the future to tighten up the wording on the listing and be explicit at the top of the listing what is and is not okay. As it is now, the second word in your listing is  drinking  and you allow parties but your house rules (which AirBnB buries at the very bottom of the page) have the "no parties" option checked. As we all know, guests don't read past the first few lines.....

[Sarah977]

@Hollye-And-Will0  Like @Sean433, I can never understand why hosts are worried about upsetting some stranger who is asking for something that doesn't fit with your listing. I also don't understand hosts telling a guest that the place isn't available when it is clearly available on the calendar. I'd just be straightforward and not detailed when declining. In fact, you don't have to give any reason at all. Guests cancel reservations all the time without giving the host any explanation.

Like @Pat271, I also read this guest's initial message as being polite. If he had asked if the person in the other dwelling was going to be around, that might send up red flags, but he specifically said no problem, just ddn't want to disturb a close neighbor. What he didn't understand is that there may be other nieghbors who loud partying could disturb. I can certainly understand wanting to avoid a group like this, but it's sort of at odds with how your listing reads.