3 dissapointing guests all in 1 day

[Sean433]

Guest 1:

Booked for 2 but seemed to have at least 3 guests, maybe 4. We charge $10 extra for every guest after 2.  This is for a listing I co-host for. The main host told me they not only had at least 3 guests but there was urine on bed, they were banging doors when closing them while all other guests are mindful of how they treat the place. So I left a review only mentioning the extra guests, not mentioning the urine or the banging. Airbnb then calls me and says I need proof and if I don't have proof, there needs to be a trail of me messaging the guest to address the extra guests. I said i did not confront because often times it leads to retaliatory review and how do we provide proof if the listing doesn't have a camera. I also asked how come I don't get this level of support if I call in to review an unfair review of me? How come airbnb does not ask guests for proof? He kept talking to me like a robot and i just had to hang up or lose it. 15 minutes later, review of guest is gone.

Guest 2:

Partied until 4:30 am and received complaints from tenants downstairs. Apartment smelled like weed when cleaner came. I confronted the partying because it was yesterday but not the weed because we only found out after the cleaner came. So if i leave a review, good chance I will get retaliatory review. Also, by the logic of the customer service rep in the above example, can my review be removed because i did not confront guest of the weed and if so, how to confront if it is after the fact?

Guest 3:

Check-out time is 11:00am. Cleaner came at 3:00pm because she was busy cleaning the apartment the guest smoked weed in (guest 2). They tell the cleaner they need 30 more minutes (after they are already 4 hours late in checking out). I message the guest saying she needs to enter immediately because we have new guests coming soon. He did not reply yet (it is 3:32 pm now).

I am used to guests breaking rules but 3 in 1 day is unusual. If I leave guest 2 & 3 review, good chance I will get back to back retaliatory reviews and not the same level of support Guest 1 had.

@Branka-and-Silvia0- this one was for you !

[Mark116]

@Sean433   So the fact that you have 4 eye witnesses, your cleaner and 3 other airbnb guests is not enough 'evidence' that airbnb can judge that the guest left late?  Sad.

[Allison2]

Would you consider getting an exterior camera? (Ring, or the like?)

It's been worth it's weight in gold. With good guests (fortunately, that's almost all of them) it's handy just to know when someone arrived or left (especially to clean earlier than expected). With bad guests, it provides evidence (unauthorized guests, pets, late checkout).

Like you've experienced, it doesn't matter how long you've been a host, your claim rate, or how many eyewitnesses you can provide. Air will side with the guest. They don't argue with video.

[Jennifer1421]

@Sean433Wait. What? Are you saying that despite the evidence provided, Airbnb are refusing to enforce their own Terms of Service regarding overstays?

Shameful.

@Laura_C@Airbnb 

[Emilia42]

We've all seen it before @Jennifer1421  😕 

Apparently, the TOS need to be updated to say "Overstay fees will only be issued if the guest confirms and agrees to pay them. Airbnb will not/never cover such a fee."

[Jennifer1421]

@Sean433 @Emilia42 

I can't even. In what world does a contract not equal a contract?

Totally get you about it not being about the money. There does come a point where you can't tear your hair out any more.

CBC does a feature every Monday about people getting screwed over by corporations, Sean. Just sayin'. It's called "Go Public"

[Cindy624]

Agreed we should be able to respond well after a review is made OR delete bad one 

[Sean433]

@Jennifer1421 

@Mark116 

I spoke to a supervisor yesterday. They are releasing the amount I requested which was very modest but they are not charging him for it because the evidence was not sufficient. They said sufficient evidence would be video footage of him leaving at 4:00pm when confronted by our new guests. Although she hinted that she agrees the guest had some issues, she said they can't really do much.

I responded that this guest's photo wasn't even real, its a stock photo. Their reply was that they have his Government ID on file and they could match his real photo to the video if we had it. My question then becomes, what if the guest didn't verify with an ID, then what? Another reason why airbnb must require all guests to be verified with an ID. This also brings up another point, why do they allow guests to use stock photos? Since he submitted ID, they know very well that his stock photo is not of him. Also the technology to detect stock photos is out there, it's just not being used. So many ways to improve safety and airbnb should really start doing it.

In terms of him being banned from the platform which he should be, she said only Trust and Safety can make that call but because there is no video surveillance, they cannot do that. The problem with video surveillance is that it won't prove what he said and that he yelled at our cleaner because there is often no audio with exterior cameras. So in essence, there really isn't anyway to prove it if the guest denies it.

She also suggested that I leave a last minute review however she couldn't give me an exact time for the last minute of cut off. She said there is a countdown which shows the last minute to leave a review but I cannot find it.

[Emilia42]

@Sean433, But in all reality, IF you had video footage as evidence and the guest reported you for recording him and invading his privacy then the Airbnb robots would suspend you for 5 days while they "investigate." 

[Mark116]

@Emilia42   Exactly.   Airbnb is always playing the old shell game.  If you filmed a guest without their permission to document a rules violation, maybe even a legal violation, it would be the host who got punished for invasion of privacy.  They only say 'oh we needed video' because the host doesn't have it....the same thing they always do.  Whatever you have isn't good enough, whatever you don't have is what is needed.

[Stephanie6]

@Sean433 @Emilia42 So true!  After checking the law in California I turned off the microphone on my camera rather than having to obtain "consent" from guests.  I have to wonder if there are any contract attorneys working at airbnb.  

[Allison2]

If the camera is disclosed in the listing, and the guest accepts the disclosure at booking, I can't imagine what footing they'd have to complain.

It's legal for someone to stand on the sidewalk and video my house, so why not a video of the sidewalk from my house?

[Sandra856]

@Emilia42 I had a guest about 2 weeks ago who had to leave a host in my neighborhood because the place was horrible and my guest felt so uncomfortable there. The host got aggressive and started to film him with his phone when he told he would have to cancel because of the state of the place.

The guest got help from airbnb and they booked with me for the rest of his stay. The host left a review stating that he had been filming my guest. One should think that because it is against the rules to film the review could be removed but airbnb won't remove it?

It is a crazy review and my guest was shocked when he arrived here at my place. 

[Mike1034]

@Sean433  The countdown probably only occurs in the last two days which is the time when you receive a reminder writing the review because there are two days left.

I saw that countdown appeared when I needed to leave a guest on the 14th day after the guest checked out. It told me how many hours left before a review could be posted. The countdown appears at the guest Confirmation detail. It appeared on the website only.

[Sean433]

@Mike1034 

I tried this once before and it backfired. Luckily I was able to get the retaliatory review of me removed but it was a hassle. I was told there was a countdown showing as to the amount of minutes left to leave a review. i couldn't find it until I played around with the system. now I see it.

I am experimenting with another guest who checked out 14 days ago to test the theory. I received the first email to review at 2:38pm. Theoretically the cut off time would be 2:38 pm today. The countdown showing now does match this theory. I wonder if scumbug guest i want to leave the review for also received the first notification to review me at 2:38pm? If not, then his countdown would be different from mine. 

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

 @Sean433  I wonder how those people from customer support feel at the end of the day? Just imagine having this kind of catch-22 conversation with desperate hosts for 8 hours every day! I would rather work on phone sexy lines than this 😛