Payfully Issues

[Julie131]

Just a head's up.  I don't know if you have gotten notice of this service or not.  But I feel I need to warn you.  

I applied for an advance with this company and they refused it on false pretenses.

a. They said I hadn't been an AirBNB host for more than three months. I've been hosting for over a year almost continuously.

b. They said I didn't sign the paperwork. I did sign the paperwork and have the emails proving I did.

c. They said my bank account was not the one used with AirBNB. It is. It's the only bank account I have.

d. They said my policies are "STRICT" and they are not.

Plus they do not provide a phone for you to reach out to them. Then when I tried to log on, it demanded I link my AirBNB account again, and then said it couldn't because it was linked to another account. I just cancelled and took away their access to my bank account. Just be aware. This is not what it seems.

[David126]

Their web site is not very transparent, if this is correct http://venturecrave.com/startup/payfully/, it is a lot more than c20%.

I presume more information would be available if I signed up, seems they charge a fixed cost no matter how long the advance is up to a max period of 3 months so 3 months and c20% would be a best case scenario

[Austin38]

David I really don't understand where you're coming up with those numbers

The website is here: https://www.payfully.co

Let's say it's a 5% rate. 5% of $450 is a $22.50 one time fee. One time. That's it. Tell me how $22.50 fee for $450 months ahead is "expensive" 

[David126]

Assuming best case scenario that this was for a 3 month advance it would be equivalent ot an APR of 21.55%

But seems they charge the same 'fee' no matter how long the advance is for up to a max of 3 months, I could work it out for a month but I would call that usury.

[Austin38]

You really should just think of it as a fixed fee, since there's no real interest on it. 

[David126]

Either way it varies from a Credit Card sort of cost to OMG depending on the advance period.

Nice business to be in.

[Christine455]

David, you got the idea, glad to see there are still people with common sense.  If that link you posted is correct, the true APR is well over 100% in most cases.  The reason they CAN do this legally is because it is not CONSUMER finance, but business finance -- no restrictions or regulations.

Business people are "supposed" to be financially literate and even though Airbnb hosts don't need a finance degree to start hosting, they have no regulatory protections.

It starts with the fine print and the numerous fees you're liable for if you default.   Many hosts will have a VERY painful awakening if they for some reason can't pay the loan and realize that they can get a hundred calls a day at all hours of the night, at work and tell everybody that they're deadbeats.

I'd go back to the pawnshop at 100% interest before going with Payfully.

[Austin38]

Do you work for a competitor of theirs? 

$22.50 one-time fee for 3 a month advance of $450. Done. Full stop.

THERE ARE NO INTEREST PAYMENTS EVER. Period. 

[Inappropriate content hidden]

[Austin38]

Wait I figured it out. 

"Jeffrey Matthews" and "Christine" are the same person - you two write identically and both completely ignore the very rational arguments brought up in this thread.... So you do work for Clearbanc. Got it. Please leave us alone. 

[David126]

@Austin38

Not sure how to explain it better in a forum like this, is there somebody you know who could perhaps explain it to you in person?

Put it this way, you are a Business making small loans, small loans are very expensive to administer etc and you have investors to keep happy, you are not a charity, are your charges going to be low or high?

I fully expected that this would be a very expensive way of borrowing money.

[Austin38]

@David126 

Once again you're conflating two very different things. I'd urge you to take an honest look at their pricing, and address it on a fee basis, not a percent basis. 

Do you honestly think $22.50 on a 3 month advance of $450 is too much? I'd really appreciate if you could directly answer this question, and not obfuscate numbers for other people in this thread. 

It doesn't matter what you "fully expect" it matters what the realities of the program are. 

[David126]

OK

Their fee is high in the best of examples, well not high for making small loans, Pay Day loans also attract very high fees for similar reasons. Effectively it is a Pay Day loan.

Very few of my bookings are 90 days out so this in any event would be of no interest, my average is probably one to two weeks. Varies a bit by season.

I would expect mosts hosts can find loans/advances at a lower cost if they need one.

[Rick73]

I manage ten high end properties and do well over $20,000 a month (with Airbnb alone) and I've used Payfully five or six times over the last two years and have found it to be a great service.

They charge a flat fee between 3-11% depending on your reviews and history PERIOD.

There's no compounding of interest PERIOD.

There's no hidden fees PERIOD.

Thier terms are both clear and reasonable and after reading this thread it's obvious to me (as it should be anyone) that there's a 'hater' or 'know it all' (or two) planting some of these posts and trying confuse people with all the banter about APR rates and excessive interest rates.

Comparing Payfully to userous high interest payday loans and referencing compunded interest calculations is simply not an apple to apple comparison. These people that are making this stuff up... although I have no idea what thier motivation could be.

Please note, I have no interest in engaging in any back and fourth on how compunded interest rates work as it does not apply to Payfully.

To iterate, my experience with Payfully has been great and I'd reccomend to anyone.

[Christine455]

Austin, you really need to get a grip on reality.  You've been rude and obnoxious.  I'm a consumer rights advocate and I don't work for any bank.  It does appear that Payfully struck a deal with you to promote them.  I looked at your OTHER posts and you only posted about these loans and you PROMOTE this ripoff.

So, here are some real numbers, not for YOU, as you clearly are not interested in helping others to save money.  You wrote:

"Do you honestly think $22.50 on a 3 month advance of $450 is too much? I'd really appreciate if you could directly answer this question, and not obfuscate numbers for other people in this thread."

Financially literate people compare the cost of the loan to their credit cards, overdraft line or other loans.  The proper way to do this is to calculate the APR (annual percentage rate.)

$450	$ 22.50	interest	3 month
3 month			20.000%
1 month			60.000%
14 days			129%
7 days			257%
3 days			600%

So there. You decide whether these APRs are "too much."

Here is the definition of the APR:

http://www.bankrate.com/glossary/a/apr/

(APR)?

The annual percentage rate, or APR, is the actual cost a borrower pays to the lender on a debt after adding together interest and other fees associated with the loan. When a borrower receives a quote on a mortgage or credit card, she may receive both the standard interest rate and the APR. Both will be expressed as a percentage of the principal, with the APR always higher because it includes the interest rate as well as additional costs.

And the reason Payfully doesn't disclose the APR is because it is NOT a consumer lender.

[Austin38]

@Christine455 please read @Rick73's post. 

He's spot on, and I don't think it's worth my time talking with you about this.

Read his post, he's done a better job than I can explain why you "argument" just doesn't hold water. 

[Christine455]

Austin,

t's NOT an argument.  It's a calculation.   And as I wrote, YOU and Rick can't be helped and you obviously don't need help as you guys are rolling in dough.  However, there are others who might benefit from knowing the real TRUE APR for this "payday loan" (thank you, David!)

Only extremely poor and ignorant people use payday loans.  And once people get sucked into them, they continually have to get NEW loans because they no longer get paychecks! DUH!

Just today I got this email from Payfully:

"Get paid instantly for your upcoming Airbnb reservations - it's a simple and low-cost solution to accelerating your cash flow.  Payfully give you access to your money months in advance, with payment deposited in your account in as little as 24 hours."

I sent my comment above to support@payfully.co and we'll see what they have to say.   Of course it's not a "low cost" loan, nor is it simple (read the many complaints posted here).  They would have been shut down a long time ago if they were regulated as consumer lender.  It's "usury" by any definition, but NOT illegal in the US (a capitalist country.)