Ethical Question from the Guest Perspective

[Alexandra316]

So my highschool reunion is this coming weekend, and as I've been having mixed feelings about it, I've been delaying the decision on whether or not I should go. I finally decided I would, and I booked a place through Airbnb yesterday (of course) that's near to where I need to be in Toronto. I lucked out, because there wasn't much left at such short notice, and the price was reasonable and the place has good reviews, and the host is a fellow Superhost. So far, so good, I thought.

However, when the host sent me the self-check-in details, they were careful to tell me that I shouldn't tell anyone in the condo building that I'm renting from Airbnb, and I should only say I'm a visitor if I have to talk to anyone. This really doesn't sit right with me and my ethical feelings about Airbnb. Either this person is subletting a condo that they're renting and it's not allowed, or the condo building doesn't allow Airbnb at all. This is a dedicated Airbnb apartment, so it's not even someone cheekily renting their space when they're not there: this host has multiple properties. If I'd known that, I would not have booked in the first place, as I believe that this type of unethical and illegal hosting on Airbnb is going to lead to problems for us all as hosts - it's already leading to all kinds of issues in Toronto.

If you were me, what would you do? I need a place to stay, but I'm not really okay with this host now.

[Emiel1]

Hello @Alexandra0 ,
The host seems to be on an illegal track and you are now participating in it. I would feel very unpleasant in such a situation. As you said: i would not have booked if i knew about this in advance. So now there is a dilemma: continue and close your eyes for it, or cancel (which Airbnb probably can do if you inform them about this host). But nobody can make this decision for you,  you have to face the consequences and weight them.

[Sarah977]

@Alexandra0    Well. It's obviously illegal in some regard. It sounds like you don't feel like you should support this by staying there, but your need for a place to stay is in conflict with what you know you should do. I'm quite sure you'd be livid if someone was illegally renting out your own property.  

[Alexandra316]

@Sarah0 For sure I would, and I feel bad for landlords that this happens to.

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 wrote:

    Well. It's obviously illegal in some regard. It sounds like you don't feel like you should support this by staying there, but your need for a place to stay is in conflict with what you know you should do. I'm quite sure you'd be livid if someone was illegally renting out your own property.  

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[Fred13]

Multiple listings + asking you to play a low profile = very aggressive individual gaming an otherwise well-intentioned system. In all likelihood Alex, that is the reality. Tough one, I would not support them by staying there, I would go that far at least.

[Alexandra316]

@Fred0 Thanks! I've decided I won't be staying there.

[Paul154]

, sounds like you want a hotel. Most hotels are legal and will not ask you to subterfuge intent. Hotels actually want you to advertise that you are a guest.

As a host, I  prefer my guests not to tell my neighbors my business. It would be also nice if they would tell people "I'm visiting" not "I'm staying at the airbnb at 1111 main street." . I also ask my guests not to answer the door to strangers/city officials/police.  It does not mean I'm doing anything illegal.  

[Alexandra316]

No, @Paul0, I don't want a hotel: I want to support a legal, ethical Airbnb host. I have used Airbnb quite a bit for travelling, and I have no issues with the platform overall.

[Stephanie365]

From reading other similar complaints, one of the most common causes is local ordinances prohibiting short term rentals or Condo Managers prohibiting short term rentals. The majority of properties in New York City are like this, so if you were to look for an AirBNB in NYC, it's almost guaranteed you will be asked to keep it on the down low because it's illegal almost everywhere in NYC. 

I am one of those who is on the fence about property rights. If I own something, pay the taxes, pay the mortgage, etc., I should be able to do whatever I want with MY property. This is why I refuse to live anywhere that has a Home Owners Association.  

Toronto does not YET have an ordinance regarding short term rentals. One was supposed to go into effect on June 1, 2018, but this has been delayed.  My guess is this person doesn't want it to be common knowledge that the unit is a short term rental until Toronto figures out what regulations if any, they are going to pass.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and bet the Condo Association folks are being M-1, air-cooled jerks, which is par for the course when it comes to Condo Managers and HOA people. They have control issues and are nosey, and 99 times out of 100, they're jerks, to put it politely.

And for the record, AirBNB has no control over this; this is solely on the host. 

So, basically, it's up to you if you wish to stay there or not.  I personally would stay and just enjoy yourself and just nod and smile if you run into anyone. 

[Alexandra316]

@Stephanie0 Yes, the ongoing debate in Toronto around what rules, if any, are going to be passed have many hosts feeling nervous. I am totally in agreement that people should be able to do what they want with their own property, as long as they aren't causing undue hardship to their neighbours. Condos are tricky, because when you buy, you generally know what the restrictions are, so I'm kind of on the fence there also.

[Alexandra316]

Thanks all. I cancelled my reservation, unfortunately, and went with a home share host instead.

[Virginia210]

I agree with your concerns.  I would like to know that things are on the up and up.

These are the kind of owners that give Airbnb a bad name.

I would like to know if Airbnb will be pro-active on this.

[Alexandra316]

They definitely don't seem to be: even if landlords report issues with their tenants subletting their properties to Airbnb, they don't seem to do anything about it. They view it as a matter strictly between the owner and tenant, and don't seem to get involved.

[Kelly149]

I recently rented an abb in a city that has serious regulations. My first inquiry to multiple hosts was "is this a legal rental?"

Several answered back with "oh, not actually available for these dates, goodbye"

One said "how dare you even ask such a thing. I'd never!"

Only one in the dozen said "yes, I'm legal and registered"

I think many many many listings are entirely illegal. I know that's the case in my market for sure.

The only bummer about you cancelling your visit is that now you can't post a review that calls out the fact that they aren't above board.

As a legal host, I sure do wish that this were something ABB would choose to lead on rather than cower behind.

But even as a legal host, I'm kind of with @Paul0 that I don't necessarily want guests acting like they "live" here. ABB guests are in fact, Guests.

@Alexandra0 

[Alexandra316]

Yes, I hear what you're saying about people not acting like they live there, but I would never ask a guest to lie or cover up the truth. They can truthfully tell neighbours that they're staying at our Airbnb, because they know we run one. We have a sign. We're registered with the local tourism association: we pay our dues, and we're members of the local hospitality community. As someone who hosts legally and ethically, I don't like the people who discredit the platform. I totally agree: I wish Airbnb would take a lead on this instead of pretending it's not happening and isn't a problem.