evicting a guest

[Tasia369]

I have a guest that failed to mention a 110 lb dog, to my no pet rule home.  When I spoke to airbnb, they said they would call her and ask her to leave.  She say's to them, Service dog, that's all.  Game over, for me.  My husband went there, and he knocked on door, this 110 lb dog jumped on the door, he thought the dog was going to break it, and was growling and barking at him.  The dog was taken upstairs, with my new expensive carpeting??  There cannot be a carte blanche  to Us the hosts, that own properties that cannot accomodate, pets such as these, is there nothing for us, that try and be above standard hosts, to maintain, community rules, and preserve their own major investment??  Also, airbnb, called her twice, has called me back 0, still waiting?  Any input from experienced hosts would be appreciated.  Thank you,  extremely worried host!

[Ryan2352]

LOL!  @Suzanne302  So, when my shepherds and shep mixes that I've had for 30+ years all instinctively charge the door when someone approaches, that's just magic then?  No, there are aspects to their being and their nature.  Same with humans.

[Sarah977]

@Ryan2352  I have to agree with you and can't understand why people insist on claiming that all breeds are the same, that it's just a matter of training. 

As you say, it's exactly the same with humans, and the nature vs nurture debate and studies on that have been extensive. And having raised 3 daughters, I can attest to the fact that raising the all the same way does not mean they all turn out with the same attitudes, values, or behavior. There is the DNA factor there, too.

Dogs have been bred for centuries to have certain dominant characteristics. Some are good around children, some are suited to be indoor pets, while others need a lot of space to run around. Some breeds are good watchdogs, some would let any stranger wander in without batting an eye. Some have herding instincts, some tracking instincts, some killing instincts. There's a reason why police dogs tend to be German shepherds, not collies or malamutes- they already have the basic instincts necessary to train them for police work.

It isn't the dog's fault, but they all come with certain DNA. It doesn't mean that there aren't individual exceptions within a breed, nor that they can't be trained, and many cross-breeds may have the dominant characteristics of only one of its parents, but trying to turn a lapdog into a hunting dog, or vice versa, or thinking one can, is a ridiculous notion. As are claims that breeds like pitbulls, which have attacked and maimed humans far more than any other breed, aren't aggressive and are just sweet and harmless if you train them to be.

"Pitbulls are 2.5x more likely to bite in multiple anatomical locations than other breeds. Pitbulls are responsible for 60% of all injuries and 63% of ocular injuries. Pitbull attacks have higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than attacks by other breeds."

[Ryan2352]

Thank you @Sarah977   I have a friend who's teenage son was playing video games at a friend's house and was viciously attacked by one of the aggressive breed dogs for no reason.  Wasn't hitting his friend or anything.  Came close to losing his leg and took him the better part of a year to be able to walk and run normally again.  Has a gnarly scar too.

[Suzanne302]

@Sarah977  Just to be clear, I'm not claiming all breeds are the same. Not by any stretch. But something you might not find on the internet is that most breeders today breed for physical traits, not behavior traits. That's why people who ARE familiar with breeds recommend not choosing a dog just because "historically" they've been known to exhibit certain behavioral traits. All labs don't like the water, all golden retrievers don't love kids, and on the flip side, all dalmatians aren't necessarily anxiety-ridden.

Herding breeds, do in fact, show a propensity for herding, for example, but specific behavior still has to be trained. A pit bull is not inherently violent just by being born. Period. And ALL dogs bite.

It might also be a good idea to point out that we shouldn't expect dogs to simply "put up" with human behavior without consequence. For example, most dogs give multiple warning signs before escalating to an actual bite to let you know they are not comfortable with a situation.

[Tasia369]

Back to the actual matter at hand, Suzanne, I have appreciated all of your input.  I, first am an animal lover, but my husband, not so much, he admits, that he does not want any damages in his home, does not want the responsibility of all that comes with it,  but he tolerates, our animal.  She is a cockapoo.  She is 7 years old.  She has been tested, by babies, toddlers, and other animals.  She has Never bitten, anyone.  She should have, nipped the toddlers.  She won't.  So, as to the all dogs bite, I have had several, raised, around all said situations, and never had one bite.  But did they do damage to household, yes, by anyones standard.  Not purposely, though. Training, and,  As in accidents, when no one is home, puppy teething, on something very special even, etc.  When we are hosting our homes, for people to come in, there should be respect, for the home, you lent them during their stay.  If house rules, are no pets, and aibnb, has that policy, they should at minimum, be told to reveal, the pet, what kind, etc.  Their compliance with ada rules, is not necessarily, because of ada rules, someone put their policy in place, and did not consider, some of our homes, are not a condusive environment, for such pet.  That should be left to the homeowner/host, and the guest revealing this to a no pet home, could discuss the situation, with the host.  Seems pretty simple.  There are lots of pet friendly listings.  There are options.  This should not be forced on us, and in my situation, not only was I not mad aware, there was a serious safety issue, and a danger, to me, my home, my neighbors, etc. In this policy, as they are saying, they don't care about the liability we are facing, to all these things.  We must accomodate a service animal, no questions asked.  And in this particular case, there was no warning, as they did not tell us, and my husband knocked on the door, as he say's good thing the door held!?  If I would not have told the guest the dog had to go, airbnb, would not.  She is mad at me, has rated me as a bad host, every other guest has rated me with rave reviews.  She went to another house, pet friendly, paid 1/3 more to stay there, and it was not like mine.  She posted on her review, that I threw her out on Christmas. Not really, I told her, the dog could not stay I am going to have to review her, and it should alert you and others, that, she brought a 110 lb dog  to her stay, left it alone, let it roam free, unattended, and, it growled and barked at my husband.  I was not even going to revue her, cuz I knew, what she would say.  But now I have to tell my side.  It is people like this, that airbnb, should have the policies, in place, to protect.  There is a large variety, for people to choose from.  Why force someone that is a host, to take risks, they do not want to take?  This makes -0- sense to me.  Thank you, Tasia

[Sammy-L-0]

Chihuahuas do the same thing. We have a chiwienie, two shih tzu, and a pit bull. None is more aggressive than the others. The pit (Sweetie) is the most trainable of the lot, but not inherently viscious. We have a no pet policy for our listing because pets can do pretty horrendous damage to a house in short order, and there is no telling what other people allow their pets to do.

[Tasia369]

Sammy-L-O

Sorry to say, this thread, was started by me, and I do not know if you followed whole thing, and, I really would like to say we should all voice our concern, that airbnb's policy should, be aligned, with their hosts too.  No host, no guests, no airbnb.  So come on, they will not simply say, there are plenty of pet friendly homes, look till you find one, that fits you best.  We are not going to force our hosts, to bend to your specifications.  After all this is a vacation, for most, not a necessity.  So to fill you in on the conversation, I agree with your comment, but we do not as per their policy even have the right to be notified, they are bringing a service animal to our home, and we must make our home comply with all those animals needs.  But what gets me, is the liability, rests, solely on us the hosts.  And the liability is to great, for us just to sit back and accept?

[Suzanne302]

@Ryan2352  Feel free to live in your own ignorance, but again, stop spreading misinformation. Come back when you've actually studied dog behavior and dog breeds as a profession for many years in order to be considered an authority on the subject. All you're doing now is simply projecting your fear of certain animals based on your personal experience. You are an example of the Dunning Kruger effect in action.

@Sarah977  Random "facts" found in internet articles are not research.

[Michelle53]

@Ryan2352  The ADA prohibits asking for documentation for a Service Animal. 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

"Under the ADA, a service animal is defined as a dog that has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability.  The task(s) performed by the dog must be directly related to the person's disability."

"Does the ADA require service animals to be professionally trained?

A. No. People with disabilities have the right to train the dog themselves and are not required to use a professional service dog training program.

What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.

Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?

A. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness."

The rules for Emotional Support animals are slightly different. Under the Fair Housing Act, one may ask for a certificate from a licensed medical provider documenting the need for an ESA.

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2020/0301/p302.html

[Ryan2352]

Thanks for the clarification @Michelle53   I did have a friend who trained their own service animal, but she still had to go through tests and certifications with it so it would be officially recognized as one.

[Suzanne302]

@Ryan2352  Just FYI, there is no official "officially recognized" service animal. There is no official certification required for a service animal, nor is there any central agency that can issue a certification. The tests and certifications your friend received were likely task specific for her disability.

Bogus organizations will issue certificates for "Emotional Support Animals" but those are not covered under the ADA.

[Tasia369]

Suzanne,

Could not agree with you more.  I told them, this behaved like no true service animal, as a blind person, can have a trained service animal, and , they, never leave that persons side, not even to go to the door when someone knocks, to growl and bark at them.  I told airbnb, you can go on amazon and buy documentation, and a host of other places, your animal, has to prove no training.  That is why, I question this policy strongly.  It gives the ones that want to abuse, you of the common courtesy, of informing you they are bringing whatever any kind of animal of any size, to your home, without notification, even when in your house rules, you chose NO PETS?

[Tasia369]

I do not believe this is right, just the same, what about the rules that we have to live with, such as insurance, condo association regulations.  This person, that I was dealing with, was abusing this, anyhow, a true service animal does not leave their person, does not act aggressively, and left loose without leash, with their person, more than 20 feet away .  It is not about the documentation, anyhow, it is about the notification, policy being forced on me or any of you other hosts, that may  not feasibly work for your situation.  I would definitely say it's a glitch in the system, only for those that want to abuse it.  Most people, I believe would have courtesy to inform you to make sure it works for you and them.  Not tell you, LAW IS, POLICY IS, then

your'e left cleaning up the crap?

[Lisa723]

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1869

[Suzanne302]

@Tasia369 

Rarely do I claim to be an expert on anything, but I can tell you I've worked with several organizations that provide service animals so I know the ADA rules backwards and forwards.

As it's already been mentioned, you CANNOT ask for documentation. There is no agency that "certifies" service animals anyway.

You can ask 2 questions: (1) Is this a service animal? (2) What specific tasks does the animal perform for you?

Also per ADA, if a service animal is disruptive, you CAN require that it be removed. I would say barking and growling at you is grounds for removal. The issue is that Airbnb also requires you to accept "Emotional Support Animals" which is a whole other topic.

Since the dog growled and barked at you, that is a legitimate reason to have the animal (and guests) removed.

For future reference, if anyone claims to have a service animal you can respond with specific rules, ie, the dog must be with the owner at all times (which a legit service animal is) and cannot be left alone.

And, for future reference, a legit service animal rarely causes any problems at all.