Define 'Private Room' and Host accessibility thereto

[Ken28]

As a part of hosting, I take it upon myself to do a quick walk-through every couple days. I've been doing this since day one. First, I check that they're not home (car isn't in garage or driveway), and then I knock on the door, and then I let myself in when I verify that they're not present.

I take a quick look around, make sure the trash can isn't full, tissues are stocked, and then inspect to verify that towels are in their proper locations (the bathroom, and not hanging in the bedroom), food is not being stored or disposed of in the rooms, and that they are taking good care of my personal property. (Those are all things that they agreed to in the rules.)

I just had a long term guest leave a week early. She requested a refund of her unused days via the resolution center. Her reason was listed as "uncomfortable" with the host entering the room without permission.

Airbnb reached out to me, and I confirmed that yes, I access my guests rooms without their consent or even notice. Their response said:
"I do truly understand that you would just like to protect your home from damages, and I get that with guests in the past, this has become your primary goal. However, like I said, this is absolutely not something you are allowed to do on our platform. If a guest books your listing as a "private room" they are not expected to share their living quarters, which means this is only for the guest that had booked. By going into this guests listing without her permission, this makes for an uncomfortable and potentially inappropriate situation between you and your guest, and this is something we always would like to avoid."

"With that being said, per our Terms of Service, Section 9 paragraph 5 & 6, I will be proceeding with refunding your guest for the nights she did not stay in your listing. This will amount to a total of $[xxx]. At this time, because you have already received this payout you will be seeing an adjustment to your account for this total. This adjustment will be due to come out of your future payouts."

Nowhere in my reading of the Terms of Service does it say that a Private Room is not accessible to the Host. I've challenged the Manager, but haven't gotten a response back yet.

[Ann3]

I just tried to click on the profile and link, but got the ice cream girl error page.  I wonder if the listing is down?  Just my 2 cents:  I think it is creepy for a host to enter the rented space without notice. Especially a guy.  I've got this notion that the sharing economy brings with it a certain amount of mutual respect, but maybe it's just me. Finally, I'm not naive -- I have had my share of difficult guests, just like anyone else, but letting small stuff go has been one of the biggest lessons I have learned about sane hosting. Your rules are very stringent, as is your right.  But they don't make you sound very welcoming, and the tone of your posts seems to bear that out. Maybe you're hitting burnout?  It happens to all of us.

[Suzanne-and-Shaun0]

Ken, 

If you want to be able to enter to do random checks in the rooms you rent, why not just include that in your listing, no different than you would have to include surveillance cameras?  This would at least provide the guest with the ability to choose whether they would like to subject themselves to that sort of scrutiny during their stay.

As an attorney, I'm concerned that you are treading on dangerous ground by entering the rental unit of a paying guest without their consent or notice.  There are laws in many jurisdictions in the US and around the world that explicitly prohibit, absent exigent circumstances or emergencies, a landlord's ability to enter a dwelling unit without the consent of notice to the paying tenant.  It is considered a privacy violation and you can place yourself in a lot of hot water if you run into someone who is looking for a payday.  You are technically trespassing (even in your own home) and could also be subject to criminal charges depending upon the laws in your jurisdiction.

[Rachael26]

It appears that Ken has had one too many problems and can't get the support he wants from Airbnb - so he has removed his listing and 'retired'.

This thread has ended for him - but may still have some use - it has some helpful tips from other hosts.

Best Wishes.

[Robin4]

@Suzanne-and-Shaun0

That Suzanne is a great response and seriously needs to be heeded by all who think the law does not apply to them.

I would strongly suggest all hosts look at Airbnb's terms of service! You will realise that privacy is a big point, and Airbnb will not stand behind you if you violate your guests rights and your states privacy laws.

I felt @Ken28's outlook on this ill-conceived from the start of his thread here and I thank you Suzanne for pointing out exactly where it can lead.

Cheers.....Rob

[Ken28]

Okay. I admit that I'm no lawyer, but I've been digging into our Indiana Code for the past few days trying to get my head around this. It's a complicated subject. I admit that. But without a lawyer, I'm left drawing my own conclusions from my local regulations.

>> Sorry... I'm going to use CAPS to keep to highlight the Terms... Don't assume I'm yelling. Just trying to make the really confusing legaleze easier to follow :). Also, I've ommitted a lot of the additional stuff that wasn't applicable. <<

From what I can tell, within INDIANA, a host in a private residence with a room on Airbnb is not considered a LANDLORD, and thus is not held to the LANDLORD-TENANT STATUTE.

Here's my reasoning. I have to make one assumption, since I can't find a formal definition anywhere. The term 'TRANSIENT GUEST' or 'GUEST' is often used to signify an individual that is temporarily residing in the area. They use the term a lot in the Hotels and 'Bed and Breakfast' section of the Code to refer to the persons that rent rooms in Bed and Breakfasts and Hotels.  I assume the term carries the same meaning in this portion of the law.

Here's what I found: 

IC 32-31-3-3: "LANDLORD" is the owner, lessor, or sublessor of a RENTAL UNIT or the PROPERTY of which the unit is a part

IC 32-30-8-3: "TENANT" is defined as a person who leases or resides in a RENTAL UNIT.

IC 32-31-3-8: "RENTAL UNIT" is a part of a structure, that is used as a home, residence, or sleeping unit by an individual(s) who maintains a household

IC 32-30-8-2: "PROPERTY" is many things, but there's a specific exception: The term does not include a hotel, motel, or other guest house, part of which is rented to a TRANSIENT GUEST.

So, here's how I interpret this: An Airbnb room is not a PROPERTY, but instead it is a smaller unit within the PROPERTY. If you were to consider it a RENTAL UNIT, you would have to argue that the RENTAL UNIT is being used by the individual who maintains the household. As I see it, a GUEST (or as Code would call them, a TRANSIENT GUEST) would not be maintaining the household. They are not responsible for upkeep, utilities, or any other 'maintainence' of the household.

Also, if that wasn't enough, there is a specific exception to the applicability of LANDLORD-TENANT STATUS:

IC 32-31-2.9-4: INAPPLICABILITY of LANDLORD-TENANT STATUTES:

The residential landlord-tenant statutes do not apply to any of the following arrangements...TRANSIENT OCCUPANCY in a hotel, motel, or other lodging (among others)

Thus, so long as we consider the GUEST to be TRANSIENT or that they are not maintaining a household with the RENTAL UNIT, the LANDLORD-TENANT laws don't apply.

@Suzanne-and-Shaun0, I'd love to hear from you, if you think that my interpretation was ill-conceived.

[Ann3]

Dig all you want, but when you book guests using the Airbnb platform, you are subject to their policies.  Every time you accept a reservation, you tick the box saying you agree to Airbnb's terms.

If I were a guest, and a host broke those terms by entering my room--unannounced-- for a non-emergency, I would react exactly as your guests did. Their reviews (and your replies) speak volumes.  Not everyone is cut out to host people.  If, as is noted in one of your reiews, tote bags resting against a wall is worth mentioning, that is indicative of someone not tempermentally suited for hosting. I find your comments throughout this entire thread really disturbing, and looking at your rules, it's almost like you are setting your guests up to offend you. 

P.S. Asking your guests to let your dog out and then crate him/her is simply over the top. 

[Ken28]

Yes, @Ann0. I've agreed to Airbnb's policies, and complied with those policies and local laws.

Stop and read the Terms of Service before you accuse me of breaking them. 

Why can no one else grasp the concept that until something is WRITTEN in the Terms of Service, there is no guarantee, express or implied, that a Host will not enter a Guest's room.

[Vanessa-and-Kurt0]

Gosh, this whole thread is interesting. Ken, we all get that you have a need to disect the terms and be offended that they do not specifically say what you want. But, doesn't a little bit of common sense and hospitality come into play here. There are MULTIPLE responses from fine hosts who say going into a guests room to check on the status is fine, simply put it in your guidelines and let them know in advance so they are not put off and can put away their private items. I don't understand why you are fighting that very good option as it seems to work for both parties.

Letting out your dog is certainly a weird request but as long as the guest knows that is a responsibility BEFORE they book then I guess it is fine.

[Ken28]

My room access is in my rules now, but this is a question of WHY it has to be there?

Airbnb was founded on the premise that someone was giving someone a place to sleep, as a Guest in their home. The guest is just that... a Guest.   When you go to your mother in law's house, do you have the expectation that  your mother-in-law cannot enter the bedroom in her own house? Of course not. It's her house, is it not?

For those that DO have local Landlord rules that apply, your case may be different. But I'm NOT a landlord. I'm a normal person offering a Guest Room. Nothing more should be inferred from the arrangement.

[Vanessa-and-Kurt0]

@Ken28 3 issues with your premise:

1 Guest is PAYING to rent the ROOM-which means while they are paying, its theirs. If you don't agree, then what is the guest actually paying for?

2 You are not their mother in law. No one treats paying guests like they treat a family member.

3 No one said you cannot enter the bedroom in your own house. In fact, most said you could-with notice.

I guess the answer to your WHY does the access have to be in your rules is because of common courtesy and hospitality (for instance I may want to tuck away personal items or expensive jewelry if I knew you were coming in). WHY are you a host if you aren't a fan of courtesy and hospitality?

[Ken28]

"No one treats paying guests like they treat a family member." @Vanessa-and-Kurt0?

Hi. Let me introduce myself. My name is 'no one'.

If you're not treating your Guests as GUESTS (or like family), then you're missing the point of Airbnb! To quote them: "BELONG ANYWHERE".

[Vanessa-and-Kurt0]

@Ken28, I don't particularly mind if my family members eat my food in my fridge, eat in the living room, move my car if it is blocking theirs in the driveway, use my bathroom as opposed to the guest bathroom. But I may mind if a guest did any of those. I am treating them like guests-and my reviews show that. You have a LOT of rules, I assume you are more lenient with family, its natural. Or maybe not, and you have your family find the code words in your rules and agree to them.

[Ken28]

'Rent' has several definitions. Here is one of them:

1. to pay money in return for being able to use (something that belongs to someone else)
2. to allow someone to use (something) in return for payment
3. to be available for use in return for payment : to be for rent

Just because you lease something doesn't INHERENTLY mean that you reliquish full control over it. Again, some legaleze in the Terms would be appropriate, to specify what Airbnb means when they say "Rent" or "Private".

That's all I'm asking for. And as hard as you all argue, until you read the Terms in full and find something that defines these terms, you are simply stoking a fire. Not putting it out.

[Farah1]

@Ken28 you are the only one who is arguing. This community is for airbnb members to seek for help and give help. It looks like you already have your own answer and want to stick with it (and that is ok). What is your goal here? For airbnb to have the exact sentence saying whether hosts are allowed/not allowed to enter the private room when guests are not present? If yes, then take it to airbnb. Other hosts do not have control over that, we do not run the site nor the company. Or, do you want people to agree with you? You cannot force people to do that and you keep being defensive when others giving suggestion/opinion, so the discussion is going in a circle. Or do you just want to complain and rant? You can talk about definition and what you think about rent/guest/landord and more, but that does not change the fact that your previous guests did not feel comfortable with some of the things that you did. Anyway, I don't need an answer. I understand that sometimes there is a frustrating moment on hosting experience, but your posts are negative-negative-negative, why can't be positive?

[Ken28]

"Asking your guests to let your dog out and then crate him/her is simply over the top."

No, @Ann3, it's not. Over the top would be expecting that guests take my dog for a walk, or feed him. All I ask is that they let him out (he's trained to stay in the yard and return when he's finished) and crate him before they leave.    Just like kids... you ALWAYS give them the opportunity to go potty before you leave the house, because they may not have another chance until you return 8 hours later.

Dogs spend much of their day resting but awake, around 30% of it, in fact. When I have no guests, I crate the dog as I leave for work, and those hours that I spend at work are spent resting. While resting, the dog's internal systems (digestion, for example) are slowed. Thus, they don't need to releive themselves as often.

Now, when someone is in the house, the dog doesn't get crated. The normal schedule is disrupted; he's following someone around, interacting with people, or watching squirrels and people through the windows. His bodily systems are fully functioning, and so the dog must relieve itself more often.

In short --- a crated dog is a resting dog. A resting dog can go longer without relieving itself. And less messes is better for everyone.