Full refund for the guest AND a bad review possible

[Daniel2500]

After having a year with an almost every time empty flat - although putting in already a very cheap price - I finally got a booking for 28 days while Christmas and new years eve (normally the most popular time for bookings in my location).

Today the guest arrived, i allowed him to check in some hours before check in time and he immediately texted me and airbnb: he is not going to stay there, he claims a full refund for 28 days. There is some drilling or hammering noise from an other flat in the building and the flat is "untidy" -could hardly believe that cause I employ a really tidy and expensive cleaner.

Probably he just didn't like the flat, though pictures and location is exactly as shown on airbnb, and he knows that due to the situation in 2020 he can choose out of dozens or hundred empty and cheap flats.

Airbnb contacted me and offered me: full refund for the guest. Not even the first night or the cleaning fee would stay for me, although he already checked in, so I had efforts and will have costs to send somebody to control and clean again, after he left.

But the worst: even if I agree to a full refund, he will still be able to write a bad review.

After texting dozens of messages and half hour talking with airbnb - no change. The deal would still be, he gets full refund AND a bad review is still possible. Why is airbnb so stubborn? What would you do in my position, being also stubborn and denying the full refund? Especially as he didn't show any documentation for the flat being "untidy"

Finally i agreed to this very bad deal for me. Lots of efforts, flat was blocked on airbnb so nobody else could book it, no income but costs and finally i am depending on his goodwill now not to write a bad review.

With these kind of behaviour, is airbnb still a fair business site fulfilling Germans laws by not being "sittenwidrig"? In my point of view it is trending step by step in the direction of a toggle contract for us hosts - and that is illegal in Germany

[Anonymous]

@Daniel2500  It was actually a British law that prompted Airbnb to allow reviews for bookings cancelled same-day globally:  https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/27/airbnb-agrees-reviews-loophole-intervention-cma-r...

Many hosts have complained - I think one thread on the topic went over 300 posts long - but this is not a policy that's going to change anytime soon. You will still have the ability to write a reciprocal review and post a Host Response addressing prospective guests, clarifying that the guest did not stay in the property and the review does not reflect a typical experience.

In the meantime, have you personally inspected the home since receiving the feedback, to make sure the cleaning is up to your standards? Are you able to check on the noise situation? In the Edit Listing section "Other things to note," there is an opportunity to disclose "Potential for noise" and mention times of day when audible construction noise might occur. 

[Daniel2500]

"You will still have the ability to write a reciprocal review and post a Host Response addressing prospective guests, clarifying that the guest did not stay in the property and the review does not reflect a typical experience."

well, this possibility always exists and you now yourself for sure, that this  doesnt help anything against a declining star rating and the loss of my superhost status.

So where is the sense for me, to grant a full refund? I have efforts, costs, zero income AND still depending on some bad guest and his possibility to review.

Awful deal. No fair contract

[Emiel1]

@Daniel2500 

As there is no evidence provided, you could be stubborn also and ask for it.

But as case is already closed, just keep fingers crossed for the review.

 BTW "hammering and drilling noise" is not what guests appreciate during the Christmas holidays.

[Daniel2500]

" BTW "hammering and drilling noise" is not what guests appreciate during the Christmas holidays"

nobody ever appreciates noise, but it can always and everywhere happen. If it is in during daytime, as it was, it is for neighbours completely legal to drill or hammer and no host can do anything about that.

Is this really a reason to get a full refund of 28 days? a noise on the first day some hours before official check in time while a client was granted an early check in?

maybe still to mention, it is about a flat right in the middle of a 4 million people city. "Christmas holidays" will never be there calm and without any noise

btw, i am at the moment myself guest in an airbnb. it is one of the most expensive and elite buildings in Colombia. Gated community, Pool, Gym etc - but a near highway is so loud, at night seems motorbikes having fun there racing each other. I wake up several times each night though windows are closed (no isolation). Should I really demand a refund for that?

[Colleen253]

@Daniel2500 Get your cleaner to do a time stamped video walkthrough after each turnover, and send it to you. This way you can stay apprised of the general quality of work they are doing, and have photo evidence to refute a claim like this, if it's indeed bogus. 

[Daniel2500]

I already sent a person checking the flat. Nothing wrong with the "general quality of work"

and the guest never showed any documentation or explanation what was "untidy"

so sorry, this answer does not really help. I am still captured in this unfair deal granting a full refund without a reason AND the danger of getting a bad review. Alternative is having an angry customer in the flat for 28 days.

Your answers are meant nicely, but in the end the point remains: without tourism there are plenty of empty flats and prices of the whole market went down, that it is hard to cover even maintenance and heating costs. Clients abuse the generous rules of airbnb. Hosts are captured in a system of toggle contracts. Even if you come to meet maximum to the claims of a customer, you still can be punished without any output. No fair system, not compatible with our idea of social market economy. Contracts have to be fair for both sides, especially when small bizneses are involved

[Anonymous]

@Daniel2500  Who do you think you're talking to here? This is not Airbnb customer service. Three of your peers have offered you free advice - which you can take or leave - but it seems you'd much rather have a rant about your Feelings. If your behavior in business is as pig-headed as it is in the online community, it'll be no surprise to anyone if you fail.

Nobody's here to persuade you that the system is fair, nor that the agreement between host and guest is symmetrical. It's not. But if the reality of your marketplace is that the supply vastly outstrips the demand, your underlying problem has very little to do with whether you get to keep your silly Superhost badge. You can try other listing services and see if one of them makes it a little harder for guests to get a full refund - and do report back if one works out for you! But I think you'll find in any scenario that if the guest is so dissatisfied upon arrival that they'd rather book elsewhere at the last minute than even put their bags down, any cent of the payout you try to keep will be duly retaliated in the review. 

Sorry that under these circumstances you've wasted so much money on a luxury property in Colombia. 

[Daniel2500]

i expected to talk to other hosts, but it sounds like airbnb customer service or some lawyers of the company, yes.

just these people would normally dont write offenses like "pig-headed"

" it'll be no surprise to anyone if you fail."

your assume is completely wrong, I do not fail. I have great numbers and reviews. Just in  2020 Corona destroyed tourism. All small biznes owners in touristic city locations have probably the same issues.

"harder for guests to get a full refund".

you misunderstood. it was no decision of airbnb to give a full refund. it was what the asked me and what I finally granted. They probably always ask that first cause that would be the easiest way for them, or am I wrong...?

And that was my question, which no one of you answered: what to do, granting a full refund of 28 days and still being threatened by a bad review? or grant no refund and facing the review?

As you obviously want to offend me, ok - call me stupid cause I finally agreed to this bad deal

"they'd rather book elsewhere at the last minute than even put their bags down"

again. the whole city is empty flats. empty hotels. elite hotels like radisson, which cost normally 200 Euros per night, are actually down to 50 Euros. So there is no problem for customers to rather book elsewhere at the last minute. In this particular case it was even in favor for the customer. he came in the morning into my flat and "put his bags down" for free. And went at normal check in times elsewhere.

"you've wasted so much money "

another wrong assume. I didnt write anywhere, that I wasted so much money. I wrote that it is one of the most expensive airbnbs on the local Columbian market. Expansive compared to the market and the local prices. That doesnt mean that a customer wasted so much money. Coming from Europe it is still quite cheap.

 I messured yesterday by app the maximum noise at night in the flat, it is 70 decibel by closed windows. WHO recommends less than 40 to sleep (note decibel is not linear but exponential) - however i wont accuse the host for having traffic noise. I dont see his guilt

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

@Daniel2500   Success has a different meaning for everyone, but for me it might mean reaching the point where you're not having a public meltdown over the fear of a single review. Every host has to weigh the value of enforcing rules, lodging damage claims, and levying fees against the risk of negative public feedback - this is just the reality of the job. 

Had you or a locally-based co-host been physically present to address their complaints on the spot, you'd have far more leverage against any claim that the home was unsuitable. The compromises involved with hosting remotely are solely your own choice.

You're right that the current market puts you at a competitive disadvantage. Well, cry me a river. You have a perfectly livable unit of housing sitting vacant because most people have the good sense not to be traveling now, while you have the privilege of traveling overseas during a lethal pandemic and bragging about your "elite" holiday rental with luxuries that most of the hard-working locals outside of the "gated community" will never be able to afford. Go outside, buy an arepa, bust out the tiny violin and tell the vendor how unfair it is that you might be about to lose your Superhost Status. The whole system is unfair and unequal, but you're not the victim of that, buddy. You're the face of it.

[Daniel2500]

"Had you or a locally-based co-host been physically present to address their complaints on the spot"

again a wrong conclusion. of course i have people there physically present, otherwise i couldnt maintain and rent. Is making wrong conclusions a kind of a hobby for you...?

"you have the privilege"

again a wrong conclusion. i am myself from a working class family, i created and built my airbnb place with my own work and lots of investing.I had no privileges

"where you're not having a public meltdown over the fear of a single review"

if you would have understood the airbnb review system, every single review can be the meltdown

[Katrina79]

@Daniel2500 @It is a bad shake when the guest has you in the situation where the only way to get out is offer 100% refund for unused nights. It’s happened to me a few times and I’ve also had the sting of a bad review to follow. However, it hasn’t happened to me in such a desperate market due to the pandemic. Sorry to hear you had to lose out on the 28 day booking. I don’t think you can avoid it, it’s the way Airbnb works. You are right that the guest would have easily been able to make up something to get out of the reservation anyway. Nobody wants to force a guest to stay for 28 days when they are unhappy with the accommodations. You did the right thing, it’s just an unfortunate situation. Sometimes I use the policy in my favour now. When I get a complainer who immediately starts in on me upon checkin, maybe looking for a discount. I offer them to leave and I will refund them 100% for any unused nights. It usually stops them from getting too carried away, I address the concerns they raised, and they stay pleasantly. That’s the positive angle I’ve found with the policy/situation you describe. Although it never solves the negative situation you have experienced, and I don’t think you can, c’est la vie! 

[Sarah977]

"it is for neighbours completely legal to drill or hammer and no host can do anything about that."

It may be legal, but what the host can do about it is to disclose the potential for noise to guests. Any issues which could disturb a guest and cause them to leave and ask for a refund should be made clear in the listing info and/or in messages with guests so they can decide for themselves if it would be a deal breaker for them. A guest who is going to be out all day during working hours may have no issue with construction noise, whereas a guest who is going to be working online from home all day may find it unacceptable.

@Daniel2500

[Daniel2500]

are you kidding? airbnb is no platform for spas or wellness saunas. it is all about normal flats in normal houses, where normal people live. They are called neighbours and it is always possible that a neighbour wants to drill or hammer something in HIS own property. A host cant do anything to disclose "the potential for noise to guests"

you obviously didnt get the point or dont want to see it: in a market like in 2020 with hundreds of empty flats in every touristic city location customers have the full market power and it seems like airbnb is misusing this situation by having toggle contracts with hosts

[Sarah977]

"They are called neighbours and it is always possible that a neighbour wants to drill or hammer something in HIS own property. A host cant do anything to disclose "the potential for noise to guests"

I got the point perfectly well. Of course a neighbor could decide to hammer a hook into the wall to hang a picture, ad it would be ridiculous for a guest to complain about that. But that's quite different from someone doing renovations where a construction crew is hammering and drilling all day. It's the host's responsibility to be aware of such things and advise a guest if those things are taking place.