Making assumptions about rules as a host (and guest)

[Inna22]

I just got my first bad review as a guest. I have 20 reviews overall. The host said that I allowed my dog on furniture, did not mop the floors and had extra guests over.

I did all the above.

The dog: I allow pets on furniture at my Airbnb's. It is not an enforceable rule plus most humans are messier than most dogs. If this was in her listing (and it did allow dogs and I paid a pet fee), I would not have booked. I made an assumption that this was ok, she made an assumption that everyone knows not to let dogs on furniture. I guess I will know to ask next time before booking. She will have more "bad" guests if she does not spell this out

The mopping: there were check out rules posted on the fridge and I followed them. Apparently there were more rules in the listing itself and I did not look there. I am surprised she only mentioned the mopping as there was a whole list I did not follow. I assumed that what was posted on the fridge were my instructions. She assumed read (and remembered) the entire listing including house rules. I should know better as a fellow host to do so. I think there are three categories of people: those who will leave a place better than they found it; those who will clean if they are told (me); those who will leave a mess no matter what.

This host assumed I will explicitly seek out check out rules or would clean as if this were my home. I assumed I paid a cleaning fee, I am on vacation and if I need to do anything specific it would be obvious. I probably would have not booked if I saw the cleaning requirements in the listing (too much for me). I have revisited her listing and I found all of this in house rules. You have to scroll all the way down past reviews, map etc. you then see icons for house rules- check in and out, pets etc. You then needs to click on show more to read her text.

I do not think any guest will go through that much reading trouble and if they do, they are not going to remember all of that when the time comes to stay. I cant blame it on the host either however as one myself, this is not how I should be displaying anything I actually want read by my guests

The guests: we were there for my daughters sports camp. Her friends came over and parents picked them up. No one stayed overnight and the number was under the total head count. I did not cook for them, they did not shower. I allow guests and do not charge for them however require IDs and advanced notice. There was no such language in this listing. The host must have assumed this was a given that no one can come over. I actually specifically booked a bigger place knowing she would have friends over so again would not have booked if this were in the rules.

I am not making excuses for my behavior.  I am posting this so we can all gain perspective of a guest. I genuinely had no clue how bad of a guest I was. I personally have learnt a lot from this about guest vs host expectations, what should be communicated and how.

[Debra300]

@Inna22,

We've always done a thorough turnover between guests that includes cleaning sweeping, vacuuming and mopping, .  I want and expect my guests to sweep and/or mop up  visible dirt that they brought in and anything that they spilled or dropped.  Especially, those things that will attract bugs and vermin.  Just clean up after themselves., and nothing more.

I can fully appreciate your feelings about cleaning, and commend you for offering a worry-free package.  I've thought of doing something similar.  I just noted that I disagreed with your implication that a clearing fee is meant for cleaning up a guests messes.  In my opinion, it is the fee to prepare the space for rental.  Housekeeping comes in on a scheduled basis during the stay a cleans up after guests.  

[Debra300]

@Inna22,

The those crumbs attract unwanted creepy visitors that can get our place closed down, and spread into my adjoining home and the other rental spaces.  Spilled drinks or other liquids can ruin hardwood floors and rugs, or permanent stain tile, walls and furniture.  I once had guests who spilled wine or grape juice, and didn't wile it up.  I had to repaint the wall, and the purplish ring mark from the glass is still visible on the night stand.

[Huma0]

@Debra300 

I've come to expect a few crumbs, but I'm a live in host, so that's not such an issue (my robot vacuum has been invaluable). It surprises me though that some guests drop muesli/granola, rice or whatever all over the floor and then just walk away. Where the host is not on-site and pests are an issue, it makes total sense that even crumbs should be swept up. 

With spillages, I think a guest should clean them up regardless, even if pests and damage aren't an issue. I see it as a common courtesy.

It's amazing though how some guests say nothing when they spill something that will cause damage. I've come home to find a puddle of oil on the dining table, with a steady stream of it pouring onto an upholstered chair. The guests denied all knowledge.

I had a guest check out the other day. When I went to clean her room, I found a massive brown stain on the rug. It looked like tea. Shampooing the rug faded the stain, but it's never going to come out now that it's been left to dry in. It's not like a few drips that she wouldn't have noticed, but a proper spillage. Why not tell me so that I could treat the stain immediately? Same thing happened in another room with a dried coffee stain on a cream rug. That one had splashed all over, so the guest must have realised. Yet, he said nothing and by the time I found out, again too late and the rug was ruined.

I do wonder what goes through people's minds when these things happen. Would they just leave a spilt drink on their own rug? Do they think it's the host's job to clean it up and that it's no big deal? Perhaps they are just not domesticated enough to know that these kinds of spills need to be treated immediately. Perhaps they think no one will noticed. Who knows? 

[John5097]

@Inna22 

There is no long list of cleaning instructions is the house rules. It only says to clean it so that its ready for the next guest. So the other list of cleaning instructions must have been posted on the fridge that you also didn't bother to read. We are also host, so have some experience with other host who stay as guest and don't bother to read the house rules or check out instructions. Mine is posted on a stand, one paragraph, that says guest don't need to clean the floors, can leave sheets on the bed or put them anywhere in the bathroom with the towels, to just put used dishes in the dishwasher but don't need to start and also don't need to start the WD. But as I mentioned other host that have stayed with me didn't bother to read house rules or the very brief check out instructions.  🙂 

[Inna22]

@John5097 i’m not sure if you are coming up with assumptions about me or making generic statements. I apologize if you were being generic and I took it personally.  I did absolutely everything asked of me on the fridge. If you look at this persons house rules, their instructions about laundry, garbage etc.

[John5097]

@Inna22 

This is what you posted. 

" I am surprised she only mentioned the mopping as there was a whole list I did not follow. I assumed that what was posted on the fridge were my instructions."

There was no mention of mopping in the house rules. 

You also sated you din't read them? 

" I probably would have not booked if I saw the cleaning requirements in the listing (too much for me). I have revisited her listing and I found all of this in house rules. You have to scroll all the way down past reviews, map etc. you then see icons for house rules- check in and out, pets etc. You then needs to click on show more to read her text. I do not think any guest will go through that much reading trouble and if they do."

So the mopping must have been mentioned on the fridge? As it wasn't in the house rules.

The review didn't mention bringing extra guest.  

I do ask guest to leave everything as they found it but don't need to clean floors or do laundry or start dishwasher. 

However this host only charges $69 a night and all of the other recent guest left and received very positive reviews. 

[Inna22]

@John5097 I followed everything on the fridge. It did not mentioned mopping. Mopping was not mentioned in the house rules however other things were. Some I did just because I thought it was the right thing to do, like taking out garbage, some I did not like leaving laundry in the tub, because they were not on the fridge and I did not read the listing at departure 

[John5097]

@Inna22 No worries. I defiantly wasn't trying to make it personal, just based my comments on your statements and put a little smily face. There have been other topics that also explore why some host make the worst guest. I recall you posted something to that effect. My experiace is that some host don't bother to read the listing or check out instructions and very stressful hosting them. So the only reason I'm posting is to encourage other host to please read the house rules, as many of us try to make our listing as accurate as possible so that guest can find the right place. You said wouldn't have stayed there had you read the house rules. So there ya go. I don't think some guest plan to break house rules, but just assume they don't need to read them as they don't apply to them. 

BTW I don't think having a few kids over after sports camp or whatever it was is anything I would worry about. The listing did say it had cameras so would have been considerate to let her know your plans of having more people over, although this wasn't mentioned in the reviews. 

 For $69 a night I wouldn't mind cleaning up.  There seems to be some things the host should have mentioned. But leaving perishable food out isn't something I would do.

This one obviously wasn't a good fit. It just said it took some extra cleaning. 

I don't even put cleaning in the house rules at all. My house rules clearly state only registered guest, and I'm not worried about a few kids after sports camp getting dropped off. 

I don't see this as house rules, but others have mentioned that check out instructions should be included somewhere in the listing similar to the neighborhood description. 

At this point you said you didn't read the listing in your first post or wouldn't have booked the place, then said you have forgotten them after 3 months, said host complained about not mopping and that wasn't mentioned anywhere, so apologies for any confusion. 

I also read through about 15 recent reviews of this host and her guest and all were very positive. Yours was the only less than positive one. 

 

[Huma0]

@John5097 @Debra300 

I don't put check out instructions in my listing/house rules, because I don't expect guests to do anything other than leave the key and close the front door if I am not there to see them off.

However, when there is a longer list of specific things guests are required to do at check out that include things like cleaning, what to do/not do with the sheets and towels, whether to turn on/off the dishwasher, put things in the tub or washing machine etc. etc. I do think these things should be mentioned somewhere on the listing. 

I know it's tricky, as we don't want to make our listings/house rules a novella, but I am not sure it's a great idea to spring these things on guests after they have booked. Some are really not going to be expecting it and not happy about it (especially if they think they've paid for these things with the cleaning fee) and, as we can see from this discussion and others, there isn't a standard to-do list. There is so much variation between hosts as to what they expect. 

I like @Debra300 's suggestion RE having a section for check out instructions. I know that a lot of guests will not read it unless reminded, but at least they can't say the host never informed them what to do. If they make the booking and don't bother to read it in full, then that is their choice, rather than something that's been unexpectedly demanded of them later.

[Debra300]

@Huma0,

It was @Inna22 who had the idea about a checkout section.  I don't include checkout instructions in my listing details or the house rules, but specifically state that there is no housekeeping and guests are required to clean up after themselves during their stay.  I don't think that a guest should do anything more than that.

Inna said she wouldn't have rented the space had she seen the entire checkout list, because it was too much.  I wouldn't have rented the space, because it's been my experience that any host who states that a guest has to do more than cleaning up after themselves has a turnover window that is too short for it to be done thoroughly, and the space hasn't been properly cleaned for the next guest.  

[Huma0]

@Debra300 

I agree. I would have been reluctant to rent the space after reading the house rules. My rules are very long (added to over time) but I like to think I am only asking reasonable things of guest in a homeshare. To me they are still guests, not tenants, so there is a limit to what I expect them to do on check out (which is virtually nothing). I just expect them to keep communal spaces etc. reasonably clean and tidy while they are here so that everyone can enjoy those spaces. 

Turning over the listing, which to me includes laundry and mopping the floors, is the host's responsibility, not the guests. Yet, so many guests have reported to me that they paid a cleaning fee and still tried to leave the space tidy, but were reprimanded for not leaving it 'as they found it'. If guests ACTUALLY left the listing as they found it (impossible, in my humble opinion), hosts would never need to do any cleaning, so why the cleaning fee?

Asking guests to tidy up after themselves is reasonable but asking them to help with turnover I think is a step too far.

[John5097]

@Huma0 

The only reason I have a paragraph on check out instructions is that guest would often message me asking what they were when I didn't have any. If you read what I posted I tell guest they don't need to clean the floors, they don't need to do laundry and or start the dishwasher, and to just leave towels anywhere in the bathroom, as I don't have towel hooks, can leave sheets on the bed or with the towels, and used dishes in the dishwasher. And guess what zero problems and never received lower than 5 stars in communication. 

[Huma0]

@John5097 

I don't think I was commenting on your check out instructions. Rather I was commenting on someone else's post or just 'musing' on the subject in general.

I have no issue with having check out instructions. Like I said, I think that most guests prefer some guidelines so they know what is expected. I don't have any check out instructions, but I have often had guests ask me what they need to do when they check out. I have never bothered because I just need them to leave the key! Cleanliness issues are already dealt with in the general house rules because it's a shared listing so they need to be tidy during their stay, not just clean up at the end.

I was commenting more on what is actually asked of guests, i.e. I think it's normal to expect them to clean up after themselves a bit but I don't think it's normal to tell them to get the place ready for the next guests. I know @Inna22 's host didn't necessarily mean that literally, but she could have chosen better wording. As a guest, I would find it super annoying to be told "Leave the place as you found it, ready for the next guests," especially after paying a cleaning fee.

Many hosts comment here on the CC that the cleaning fee is for the turnover, not for cleaning up guests' messes. Fair enough, but then a host shouldn't tell them to '"leave the place ready for the next guests." That implies that it is the guest, not the host, who is responsible for turning over the listing. No wonder they get upset!

[John5097]

@Huma0 

Ok fair enough. 🙂 This is my check out instructions that are by the guide book.


 

I had another host not read my listing at all and didn't respect some house rules. I'm actually not judgmental about it as I don't know why, but guest who don't read the house rules creates stress for the host. My house rules state only registered guest, no more than 2 max,  one car, and I include it in the other things to note, as I can't have guest brining back randos at 3 am after bars close and wake up me and neighbors, or someone in town for a wedding and inviting people over. I could  lose my license for any of that. I have modest rates for one bedroom place and guest need to respect the house rules or it ruins if for everyone. 

For @Inna22 host, I would have read the house rules, and asked about what she meant by having it clean enough for next guest to check in. If the check out list was excessive, I would have taken pictures. There was some issue with mopping between them, so as I guest I would have suggested not leavening reviews this time and instead private feedback between host. I think guest should be the ones reviewing host, and if host has 20 great reviews as a guest, I would want to give them the befit of the doubt, as @Inna22 didn't actually violate any clearly stated house rules, although I don't think any guest should just assume they can invite as many friends over as they want. 
 

 

 

[Huma0]

@John5097 

I think your check out list is completely reasonable and nicely worded. I certainly wouldn't have any objection to it and I think that guests that do are probably a bit on the entitled side.

I also would not assume that I can invite anyone over without asking, but maybe others are okay with it, I don't know. I think it's always better to double check just in case. Personally, I absolutely do not want guests bringing back any unauthorised people at all. Perhaps I would be more lenient if it wasn't a homestay but, after reading so many posts on this forum about how quickly things can go wrong, I don't think so. I am pretty sure even if I rented out an entire unit, I would prohibit unregistered people.

It's just really important to state this on the listing as a lot of guests take for granted that, because they have paid for a space, they can do what they like while staying there, i.e. it is 'theirs' for the duration of the booking. I am not sure if @Inna22 's host stated no visitors. Still, I agree with you and I would have asked before inviting anyone over.