Making assumptions about rules as a host (and guest)

[Inna22]

I just got my first bad review as a guest. I have 20 reviews overall. The host said that I allowed my dog on furniture, did not mop the floors and had extra guests over.

I did all the above.

The dog: I allow pets on furniture at my Airbnb's. It is not an enforceable rule plus most humans are messier than most dogs. If this was in her listing (and it did allow dogs and I paid a pet fee), I would not have booked. I made an assumption that this was ok, she made an assumption that everyone knows not to let dogs on furniture. I guess I will know to ask next time before booking. She will have more "bad" guests if she does not spell this out

The mopping: there were check out rules posted on the fridge and I followed them. Apparently there were more rules in the listing itself and I did not look there. I am surprised she only mentioned the mopping as there was a whole list I did not follow. I assumed that what was posted on the fridge were my instructions. She assumed read (and remembered) the entire listing including house rules. I should know better as a fellow host to do so. I think there are three categories of people: those who will leave a place better than they found it; those who will clean if they are told (me); those who will leave a mess no matter what.

This host assumed I will explicitly seek out check out rules or would clean as if this were my home. I assumed I paid a cleaning fee, I am on vacation and if I need to do anything specific it would be obvious. I probably would have not booked if I saw the cleaning requirements in the listing (too much for me). I have revisited her listing and I found all of this in house rules. You have to scroll all the way down past reviews, map etc. you then see icons for house rules- check in and out, pets etc. You then needs to click on show more to read her text.

I do not think any guest will go through that much reading trouble and if they do, they are not going to remember all of that when the time comes to stay. I cant blame it on the host either however as one myself, this is not how I should be displaying anything I actually want read by my guests

The guests: we were there for my daughters sports camp. Her friends came over and parents picked them up. No one stayed overnight and the number was under the total head count. I did not cook for them, they did not shower. I allow guests and do not charge for them however require IDs and advanced notice. There was no such language in this listing. The host must have assumed this was a given that no one can come over. I actually specifically booked a bigger place knowing she would have friends over so again would not have booked if this were in the rules.

I am not making excuses for my behavior.  I am posting this so we can all gain perspective of a guest. I genuinely had no clue how bad of a guest I was. I personally have learnt a lot from this about guest vs host expectations, what should be communicated and how.

[Inna22]

@Helen3 and also I’m not at all saying I was in the right. I’m just saying that I did not set out to break and genuinely thought I was doing nothing wrong. All while being an experienced host. Regular guests what I’ve been even more clueless

[Fred13]

I have one 'house' rule - pay me what I charge and I could care less what you do. Have fun.

Quietly, I have removed over time any features that require an explanation, an understanding or special instructions. I think my place is now 'perfect' (aka totally idiot proof).

/Just interjecting some silly humor @Inna22  🙂

[Debra300]

@Fred13,

And your guests pay you a handsome rate for that simple house rule.  For those of us, hosts and guests alike, who have tighter budges, the rules have to supplement the lower cost of the reservation.

[Inna22]

@Debra300 I would’ve gladly paid more to not have to clean it all. In fact, I offer my guests a worry free package – the pay extra and they don’t have to move a finger. One thing I despise in  life is cleaning, making beds in particular. I’m just not good at it. When I had my very first job and $5.25 an hour in a stockroom, I still had a cleaning lady

[David8879]

.

[Fred13]

Actually @Debra300 99% of our guests today leave the place spotless and super organized though we ask them to do nothing.  This was not always the case, especially when we charged a lot less of what we do now. Maybe, just maybe many places are being offered at too low a price and thus allowing little room for experimenting with a different approach or gaining access to a better clientele. I cringe at the Airbnb pressure to charge less and be booked more; good for them but maybe not for a lot of hosts.

[Debra300]

@Fred13,

I agree that price does attract different types of clientele.  I am unsure of the competition in your marketplace, but will assume that there aren't a whole lot of private island Airbnbs.  Where I live and have my rentals there are a lot of offerings, and price my rentals on the higher end of the range charged by comparable listi gs.  It is a tricky audience, because we often get people who recognize and appreciate the value, and behave like they've been somewhere before.  We also get folks who think we are a hotel, and expect that level of service although our spaces are self-catering.  As I mentioned to @Inna22, I've also thought about offering a cleaning package now that the St. Lucian has allowed hosts and staff to enter rentals during stays.

[Fred13]

Interesting @Debra300 . Having been in St. Lucia a few times, I often have wondered how that market is different than in Belize. I get the 'impression' is similar but unless one is living there one never knows. 13 islands have now been developed (or trying to) here over the last 7 years copying Bird Island, but only 2 have been 'successful': a $3,000 a night model and a $1500 one (both 6-person staff, meals, general catering). We provide none of that. Something must just be missing in them, since we fill first and they after we can't accept more. To this day we are not quite sure why Bird Island has been that successful and we have always been scared to death to charge more, but when we do, they still come. 

[Debra300]

@Inna22,

I am not going to reiterate the things that @Huma0 and @Mark116 have stated, but I do disagree with you about the intent of a cleaning fee.  In my opinion, that fee is for the preparation of the rental for the guest's arrival, and is not a housekeeping fee to clean up after a guest's messiness.  I explicitly state in the Things to Know section, House Rules, and my booking greeting, that guests are expected to clean up after themselves.  I try to illustrate in my checkout message that guests are being asked only to do that and not prepare the space for the next guest, e.g., load the dishwasher, but don't run it; clean up spills, pick up dropped items; mop, sweep or vacuum visible dirt on the floor or rugs; dispose of unused food items, and place rubbish in the bin.  I tell guests not to run the dishwasher or the washing machine, and don't remove the bed linens.  @Anonymous has previously stated that the fee should be renamed to turnover fee instead of cleaning fee, and I agree because it would clear up the interpretation and expectation of the fee.

[Huma0]

@Debra300 

I like the idea of calling it a 'turnover fee'. Makes sense.

I get what you are saying about the cleaning fee and that it doesn't mean that guests aren't required to do some cleaning up after themselves, but the term does seem to cause a lot of confusion amongst them.

In this case, however, the host states that she expects the listing left "clean and ready for the next guests" and that's where I think it become unreasonable. I totally get why guests would question why they are expected to do that when they are paying the cleaning fee. 

Taking out the trash seems pretty standard. Washing your dishes or cleaning up spills seems pretty standard. I think having to do the laundry and mop the floor before departure is a bit much even when there is no cleaning fee.

[Huma0]

@Debra300 

My house rules state:

"Please clean up after yourself, especially in the kitchen and bathrooms, i.e. wash your dishes/put them in the dishwasher and clean up any crumbs or spillages on counters, cooker, sinks, basins etc. If you use the bath tub, please clean it afterwards. Cleaning products are kept under the kitchen sink. Please throw away rubbish/recycling in the bins provided rather than leaving it lying around."

For me, it's less about check out and more about keeping communal areas tidy as it's a shared listing, but I think what I ask is reasonable. If a guest spilt something on the kitchen floor, I would expect them to mop it up, but I wouldn't expect them to just mop the floor as a matter of course. 

Your check out instructions are different to those of @Inna22 's host as the latter's really convey a sense that it's the guest's responsibility to get the listing cleaned for the next guest and that is what is going to get guests' backs up when they have paid a cleaning fee. Hosts who tell guests to "leave the space as you found it" are setting themselves up for a fall.

[Debra300]

@Huma0,

I am referencing this part of @Inna22's post, "I assumed I paid a cleaning fee, I am on vacation and if I need to do anything specific it would be obvious. I probably would have not booked if I saw the cleaning requirements in the listing (too much for me)."  I inferred that Inna felt that since she paid a cleaning fee and she was on vacation that she shouldn't have to or was unwilling to do a certain level of cleaning.  I've not checked out the other's listing and house rules to see how onerous they are.  Based upon what's been said in this thread I believe that her comments about how to leave the space are unclear and can easily lead to misinterpretation.  

My checkout message is more specific, because I've found that people have different ideas about what's considered cleaning up after themselves.  I also want to be clear that's all that is being asked of them.  I think that it's inappropriate to ask guests to do things that are a part of the turnover, except for anything that can attract vermin and critters if not done (dishes, disposing of open food and drinks, and properly throwing away trash), because the turnover may not occur on the same day of checkout.  It was just only a few months ago that St. Lucia officially removed the requirement of waiting a minimum of 24 hours before entering a space after checkout.

[Inna22]

@Debra300 I totally agree

[Helen744]

@Inna 22 I do not undersatnd expecting guests to prep for other guests . That is unrealistic .I ask people to not remove bed linens and to put wet towels in the bathroom basket or hang them up . I show them how to trouble shoot the dishwasher . Some use it , some wash by hand . most people listen to my please try and recycle info and use the recycle bin ,the one inside and the one outside but seem to ignore the 'glass only bin '. Our glass does not go in the recycle bin but must be disposed of separately . I expect to strip linens ,clean the bathroom , vacumn, wash linens ,remake beds. It is what is called turnover . add to this a series of checks ,are products ,such as 'essentials' stocked. Do  battery operated things  need replacing. How can i remove stins like biro . Or put blinds back up . sweep paths . mow lawns when needed. check locks and doors mop bathroom and kitchen floors . wash windows if needed . wipe marks and generally provide a clean canvas for every guest and suck up those who leave off kitchen smells or dirty stoves or food in the fridge or crunchy crumbs or smudgy marks .They pay . i clean but i also expect them to be adults without telling them at all. most people are pretty good really .some guests are lazy and think the host is a personal maid, like their mum , but most have self respect and take care of business . I let them know when I greet them . Hey . Heres the dishwasher, theres the coffee . They can see all the bins and I always have enough bags for them and baskets . They simply do what they do on automatic . My daughter in law once said 'not everyone likes to use the same type of sponge . So we have a variety. chux cloth and various types of sponge . We have dishwashing liquid and tablets and bathroom spray and brush and shovel and a broom inside and out . Tea towels , handtowels ,handwash , soap a laundry sink a mop .I make it hard to book but easy after they get there, I trust them and they do the right thing . H

[Inna22]

@Debra300 so you’re not mopping and vacuuming in between guests? Because if you are, what difference does it make if you are mopping one crumb or 20