Another update which will increase guest refund requests

[Mary419]

I’m very concerned to see this new update.

Giving a guest 72 hours to report problems instead of 24 hours is going to make the free stay scammers ecstatic. 24 hours was plenty. Why should a guest get to complain about cleanliness after staying for over 2 days?

After hosting thousands of guests I can give many examples including once when I went to re-clean a kitchen floor for a family who clearly had spilled their own takeout food sauces all over it and then told me the floor was dirty. I’m getting very worried about the future of this business when I see changes like this:

 

[Mary419]

@Handsome-Dan-and-The-Fre0 yes you’re spot on with this. 

I woke up thinking about this. A person can rent your valuable real estate during an expensive weekend - say a sold out event in your city- and sleep and shower same as they would at a hotel. Probably get a lot of extras a hotel wouldn’t have as well. Then once they’re done using your place they simply report something on that list to airbnb and get their cash back.  Even if airbnb decided to “only”

give them half back it would be a huge blow to a home owner when rates for events are carefully calculated and part of an annual budget. 

It’s hard to shock me when it comes to Airbnb but I think I’m still reeling from this list covering so many things. If you have a pool and the cleaner comes weekly sometimes a guest will be upset that they have to skim it themselves the other 6 days… and a coastal rain will blow leaves into then a photo of that would likely get a refund. A claim that your pool wasn’t usable or a photo of a bug and boom you lose the money for valuable time at your property. 

the temptation to abuse this is going to turn a lot of normal guests into scammers if they see the menu of reasons they would be entitled to a refund.  

and @Elaine701 yes it will be one more reason why hosts are afraid to stand up for themselves if a guest has broken rules or ruined something. Now instead of just a bad review they can worry they’ll lose their payout too. Btw it’s both! Remember in Feb I had a guest send a photo of a palmetto bug then get a full refund (also the agent charged me $100 and counted it as a host cancelation and told me the bug was a hosting violation) and then he was able to write a review which was left published even though I complained… in it he is bragging about how airbnb took care of him after he found a roach in my listing. His review says airbnb put him up in a hotel. I asked airbnb if they really wanted to advertise that idea to future guests and they apparently do want to. 

[Kristina46]

Mary, Remember, mentioning a case is grounds for getting the review removed. Call back and ask them to take it down because the guest mentioned the case. 

[Mary419]

@Kristina46 I tried that. I asked 3 different times including checking with my regional contact and their answer each time was that the review did not violate any terms and can’t be removed. At this point it’s more of a case study to me I don’t care anymore if that review is hurting my listing because now that listing is on other sites too. What matters is that airbnb is ok with the review giving other guests the idea that a single insect sighting gets you put up in a hotel.

I use those moments to take the temperature at airbnb and knowing they wanted to leave it published was just another sign of where this was all going. The pattern was there since 2020 but the path has curved steeply toward risk. Since Feb 2022 it’s alarm bells all over. 

[Catherine-Powell]

Hi @Mary419 

thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences in this thread. 

I understand the frustrations you have expressed and would love to reach out to you directly to set up time to discuss further.

Best,

Catherine

[Catherine-Powell]

hi @Handsome-Dan-and-The-Fre0 

thank you for sharing your experience. On this particular experience, you didnt say whether or not the guest filed a claim for a refund? and what the outcome was? 

I think the point you make about Customer Service ensuring they talk to the Host BEFORE they refund  the guest is very important and will share that immediately with the CS team to ensure this is part of the process. 

best,

Catherine

[Elaine701]

Not sure about this, but does this also mean that potentially, a guest could file a complaint for refund *after* reviews have been written? If so, this is yet another means of retaliation. 

[John5097]

@Mary419 @Elaine701 @Handsome-Dan-and-The-Fre0 

This is the first email I got. There is a lot of other changes host may want to be aware of. I also got another email last night that only cited the changes to the refund policy. 

Here is the link to the Terms of Service that wasn't in the second email 

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2908/terms-of-service#3

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Some other things to note. 

Under search ranking: 

Search results may appear different on our mobile application than they appear on our website. Airbnb may allow Hosts to promote their Listings in search or elsewhere on the Airbnb Platform by paying an additional fee. More information about the factors that determine how your Listing appears in search results, our current promotional programs (if any), and how we identify promoted Content can be found in our Help Center.

Also host may have to also pay additional cost of relocating guest after cancelation.  This was under the the screen shot above. 

How this Policy affects Hosts

"If a Host cancels a stay or another Travel Issue disrupts a stay, the Host will either receive no payout or will have their payout reduced by the amount of the refund to their guest. Where Airbnb incurs costs in assisting a guest with finding or booking comparable or better accommodations, the Host will be responsible for, and Airbnb will have the right to require the Host to pay or otherwise reimburse, those costs in addition to the amount of any refund."

..... 

My take on it is that Airbnb has been offering refunds to guest out of their own pocket, as act of good will, to keep guest happy. And now want to pass these cost onto host. 

Now that Airbnb is publicly traded company the value of the stock price is dependent on its corporate earnings. 

However I've also noticed that the top 20 most popular listings in my area, which is very competitive, don't really change. Other host and listings try and follow what the successful ones are doing. Its common sense. If those 20 decide another platform is better fit, lots more will follow. 

[Sarah977]

@John5097  "My take on it is that Airbnb has been offering refunds to guest out of their own pocket, as act of good will, to keep guest happy. And now want to pass these cost onto host. "

I have a different take on that. I don't think Airbnb has been refunding guests out of their own pocket, aside from an extra $10, which seems to be the standard "compensation" offered if a guest finds themselves needing to relocate. And that's a drop in the bucket for Airbnb.

I think this is about guests complaining when the only other place they can find to stay costs $50 more per night and Airbnb only offers them $10 extra for the entire booking. Now guests will be able to stay in a way more upscale place than they booked, so no bad PR for Airbnb. 

This is one of the most terrifying changes- scammer guests can now claim that the 1 bed studio they booked was unacceptable for some reason, and book the penthouse apartment they wanted in the first place instead.

[Mark116]

@Sarah977  Right.  Guest stays for 3 days of a 10 day reservation, finds a 'travel issue'..gets the 3 days for free, reimbursed for the 7 days,  and then the host pays for the other 7 days at a hotel at twice the price and possibly taxi and restaurant costs as well.  Not only is the host making zero dollars on the stay, but they are spending potentially HUNDREDS out of their own income.  

[John5097]

@Mark116 @Sarah977 

Yes you are correct. Seems mind boggling. Its not the money that would bother me as much as having to be subjected to a scammer. Enough are already leaning in that direction.  

[Michelle2137]

@Mark116 just imagine everyone in the world can now basically take a luxury vacation for a couple of hundred bucks and airbnb hosts will pay the rest. Don't forget airbnb will make more on service fees so it will be a win win. It will make them very popular. There will be no recourse because we'll lose all the support services who will be busy rehoming guests. It's absolutely absurd, and what is more so is that they obviously think we're stupid enough to agree with it all

[John5097]

@Sarah977 

I believe host paying additional travel fees, and additional cost for more expensive stay only applies if host cancels within 30 days of check in. 

"If a Host cancels a reservation prior to check-in, their guest will automatically receive a full refund. If a Host cancels 30 days or less prior to check-in, and the guest contacts us, we will also assist the guest with finding comparable or better accommodations."

Although not sure what "Other Travel Issues" mean? 

"If a Host cancels a stay or another Travel Issue disrupts a stay, the Host will either receive no payout or will have their payout reduced by the amount of the refund to their guest. Where Airbnb incurs costs in assisting a guest with finding or booking comparable or better accommodations, the Host will be responsible for, and Airbnb will have the right to require the Host to pay or otherwise reimburse, those costs in addition to the amount of any refund."

......

However the way its worded implies to Instant Book reservations as well, and the three penalty free cancelations are no longer an option, if they are made within 30 days of check in. Namely, host may be responsible for cost of guest rebooking. 

"This Policy applies to all reservations made on or after the Effective Date. When this Policy applies, it controls and takes precedence over the reservation’s cancellation policy."

I know you don't use IB but someone else might find this useful.  

Edit: After reading it again, Travel Issues, could mean any of the reasons guest could request a refund within 72 hours, and host would also be responsible for additional cost or more expensive listing and travel related expenses. 

This seems to apply to IB reservations as well. 

[Sarah977]

@John5097  "Other travel issues" means anything. The guest claims the place was dirty, saw a bug, claims the linens weren't clean, the AC didn't work, they felt "unsafe", anything at all is covered under Other Travel Issues.

[John5097]

@John5097 Right that's what I just posted. Although I still think this is to increase corporate earnings, doesn't discount the fact that my first post was the first to mention these added expenses for this host in this discussion. The deatals were a little confusing because it posted in different places in the TOS. 

[Katrina314]

The thing is @John5097 , anyone who has become well acquainted with deciphering Airbnb's convoluted terminology would tell you with all certainty, that the more vague and ambiguous the phrasing they use to announce any policy change, the greater the probability of *the* worst case scenario outcome - particularly when it relates to operating conditions for hosts.