Making assumptions about rules as a host (and guest)

[Inna22]

I just got my first bad review as a guest. I have 20 reviews overall. The host said that I allowed my dog on furniture, did not mop the floors and had extra guests over.

I did all the above.

The dog: I allow pets on furniture at my Airbnb's. It is not an enforceable rule plus most humans are messier than most dogs. If this was in her listing (and it did allow dogs and I paid a pet fee), I would not have booked. I made an assumption that this was ok, she made an assumption that everyone knows not to let dogs on furniture. I guess I will know to ask next time before booking. She will have more "bad" guests if she does not spell this out

The mopping: there were check out rules posted on the fridge and I followed them. Apparently there were more rules in the listing itself and I did not look there. I am surprised she only mentioned the mopping as there was a whole list I did not follow. I assumed that what was posted on the fridge were my instructions. She assumed read (and remembered) the entire listing including house rules. I should know better as a fellow host to do so. I think there are three categories of people: those who will leave a place better than they found it; those who will clean if they are told (me); those who will leave a mess no matter what.

This host assumed I will explicitly seek out check out rules or would clean as if this were my home. I assumed I paid a cleaning fee, I am on vacation and if I need to do anything specific it would be obvious. I probably would have not booked if I saw the cleaning requirements in the listing (too much for me). I have revisited her listing and I found all of this in house rules. You have to scroll all the way down past reviews, map etc. you then see icons for house rules- check in and out, pets etc. You then needs to click on show more to read her text.

I do not think any guest will go through that much reading trouble and if they do, they are not going to remember all of that when the time comes to stay. I cant blame it on the host either however as one myself, this is not how I should be displaying anything I actually want read by my guests

The guests: we were there for my daughters sports camp. Her friends came over and parents picked them up. No one stayed overnight and the number was under the total head count. I did not cook for them, they did not shower. I allow guests and do not charge for them however require IDs and advanced notice. There was no such language in this listing. The host must have assumed this was a given that no one can come over. I actually specifically booked a bigger place knowing she would have friends over so again would not have booked if this were in the rules.

I am not making excuses for my behavior.  I am posting this so we can all gain perspective of a guest. I genuinely had no clue how bad of a guest I was. I personally have learnt a lot from this about guest vs host expectations, what should be communicated and how.

[John5097]

@Huma0 Thanks yes guest haven't had any issues with the check out instructions. One less thing they have to worry about. Still some don't read it even though its on a stand by the guest guide and still ask if there are any check out instructions, then usually spot it and day "never mind!" Other host also don't read any of the messages where I repeat each time that the check in instructions and door code are in the first message. They message me from the driveway upset I haven't sent the door code. 

I tried to phrase mine so that guest wouldn't leave a huge mess but don't need to worry about laundry, floors or dishes. I don't want them to put any used dishes back in the cabinets, and when they start the dishwasher there is usually baked on food so has to be washed again.

Thankfully I've had great guest of all ages. They have almost all be super clean. Usually I can hardly tell anyone stayed there, and they clean everything just because that's how they are. 

Another host over on Facebook said she requires 24 hour notice for any visitors as that would prevent guest from bringing back the late night trash as she phrased it and my experience has been renters who have late night guest tend to have psychotic episodes when they are wasted or call police on each other. The thing is they are super nice and you want to be friends with them and work things out but its like quick sand and the more you try the deeper you sink. That's why people require a back ground check when renting long term. You can't tell even meeting someone face to face, and have zero self awareness. 

Its best not to worry about isolated experience. Thankfully I have had great guest. 

[Huma0]

@John5097 

My guests normally tell me at least a few days in advance if they want to have visitors over. If it's someone who they want to stay the night, they need to pay the extra person fee. So far, this has prevented people from bringing random pick ups home. It's a shared listing, so I can't have random people coming in and out, especially someone the guest doesn't know. 

Guests seem fine with paying the extra person fee. It's not a lot and I have it more to stop people thinking they can have others stay over whenever they feel like it rather than to make more money. Only one guest seemed to resent the extra person fee. She didn't say so, but I could tell and I had to chase her for the payment. She left me low ratings for value.

Before, when I hosted short term guests and before I worded it very strictly in my house rules, people would often turn up at check in with someone else, e.g. a friend or relative. I can understand that some people might think they need help with their bags or want someone with them to check that the listing is safe rather than arrive on their own and I don't mind if I'm asked in advance, but people were just showing up without any notice.

Often, I would open the door and find the guest, plus an extra person/people standing there, and the guest wouldn't even introduce them. I would have to ask, "Sorry, you are??" which is awkward. It's also awkward to tell your guest that their friend/family member can't come in, but I'm not running an open house and don't want people not on the listing to be doing the tour! I would never bring strangers to a friend/family member's house without asking first. It's just rude. But, some guests seem to forget that, just because it's an Airbnb and they've paid for a room, that it's also someone's home. 

Since I changed the wording in the house rules, this sort of thing has stopped. Now people always ask if it's okay to bring so and so to the check in.

[John5097]

@Huma0 

I think that why its important for guest to read the house rules and listing. There are plenty of listings where guest can come and go whenever they want and invite friends by. Usually those are in or closer to the commercial part of the city and the host doesn't live there. The problems I've had aren't hookups, but renters or guest who meet random people and and want to continue partying through the night. You don't know who these strangers are. (Although I did have a young single guy have a night time visitor that may have been an escort) 

Also this post wasn't that clear. Its not ok to bring extra friends by after an event, even a sports camp. Maybe it was just a oversight but wasn't that specific on the number of extra kids. This listing had a max of 4, so why not just say 2 exrtra friends? I'm not sure what I'm going to do if a guest decides to invite family and friends over that are part of a wedding. That would really cross the line. I have a hard enough time trying to keep people from blocking my driveway and can't have extra cars parking out on the street, as that is also a violation and I could be cited for it and lose my license. I think you were right about mopping issue being related to spilled juice or something. 

Both of these host had a huge long list of extra fees, deposits, both check ID, but two host can't even find common ground with the most basic issues? There really is something about other host who assume every host should have the exact same policy as them. On Facebook its much worse and host expect every other host to have the exact same policy as them.

BTW.. really not my business but not sure if this was Inna, Alexandrea or some other daughter? 

I personally don't freak out about some minor extra cleaning. I designed everything to be easy to clean and so far no damages, but also looking forward to the time when I don't need to host and can not worry about retaliatory guest and all of that.  

[Huma0]

@John5097 

When I started out, I assumed that hosting other hosts would be easy. It would be great. They would get it!

Nope. Often not true. The first host that stayed with me was super picky and complained and rated me down about stuff that no other guest had mentioned. His private feedback was all "In my listing, I do this..." "When I host, I do that..." but, unlike me, his rating was not that great, he had some really bad reviews and his responses to them were horrible! 

Another host who stayed started complaining about anything he could think of, including stuff mentioned on the listing, like the bed was a double (not a king), you could hear the road outside etc. etc. By this time, I was more experienced, so just kept replying, "Yes, as stated on the listing, the bed is a double." "Yes, as stated on the listing, the room faces a busy road and there is traffic noise." He stopped complaining and left me a 5* review. 

The only time I have claimed for damages was when a host ignored my instructions and broke an expensive front door lock. At first he tried to blame it on other guests, not realising they had already checked out well before it happened. He refused to pay.

Not all hosts that have stayed with me have been a problem. Some have been very nice, but I no longer expect hosts to behave better than regular guests. I also assume they'll be more critical.

I booked an Airbnb last night and messaged the host. In my message, I mentioned that I was also a host. After I sent it, I thought to myself, "Should I have said I was a host? Maybe she will now think I am going to be a pain in the backside and super critical..."

[Inna22]

@John5097 you’re missing my point. It doesn’t matter if I invited one guest or 40. As I said, it was under the allowed headcount and they did not use house resources or made noise. My post is about different assumptions people make, not about this particular situation which was simply used as an example.

[John5097]

@Inna22 You are right I am missing the point. Both you and this host both state in your house rules that you check guest IDs. Your house rules specifically state that you have a people counter and if it counts over the number of registered guest security will be dispatched. But you assume its ok to bring as many guest as you want as long as its under the max allowed, after you state you didn't read the listing? The review didn't mention bringing extra people, it just said perishable food was left out and took extra cleaning. 

[Inna22]

@John5097 I never said I did not read the listing. I said she did not have any guest policy listed. She said it in a private message about the guests. She also had no food policy so I left one bag of brand new grapes, hoping the cleaning crew will enjoy it, about $10 worth. 

[John5097]

@Inna22 

You did say that you didn't read the house rules that did say the host checks IDs. That would imply that the guest count needs to be accurate. 

These are some of your house rules for your first listing.  

"HOUSE RULES
Unregistered guests are not allowed on the property. The presence of more than 16 guests is unlawful. A guest is anyone at the property, staying the night, or just visiting. Minors need to have a responsible adult present. We will need to check in your entire group together and copy your IDs. There is a counter installed. I utilize a private security firm. If the counter shows more than the registered number of people or if I get a noise complaint from neighbors, security will be immediately dispatched. A $200 dispatch fee will be charged from your security deposit."

So at your listing you consider anyone visiting the property a guest. But when you are a guest anyone visiting isn't a guest? 

My apologies a recent guest who was a host stressed me out by not reading the listing or house rules. It was just an isolated event and no real problems. 

I agree though that host shouldn't be sprinting an excessive amount of cleaning on guest. Her house rules did state that guest were required to clean it well enough for next guest could check in, which is really odd. Mine takes hours to clean and I'm sure its much cleaner than any other one I would stay in. 

I also don't care if guest leave food behind. I'd prefer them to just leave it in the fridge and I can put in the trash on the way out. 

I think next time I'm a guest I'll ask about check out when making the reservation. 

This review made you seem like you left dirty dishes with food still on them and the place a complete mess. 

You could have just said you had two extra kids visit for a few hours, as by mentioning the sports camp it seemed kind of suspicious that there may have been more. 

But that could all just be a misunderstanding. I wouldn't care if someone had their grandkids by or something for a short visit but think guest should mention it. 

If I also wasn't a host and just staying at an Aribnb as a guest I wouldn't have any clue about any of this. 

[Inna22]

@John5097 thats exactly one of my points. Even us hosts dont agree about all of this. It is very hard to navigate the rules as a guest

[John5097]

@Inna22 Its a good point. A host that expects guest to clean to have it ready for next guest is excessive. 

I also wasn't being too judgmental. I have a sister with three kids and full time job as a lawyer so isn't going to have as much time to read though every detail. Sometimes its funny, once when she was picking up kids from school she would cut in front of all the other moms, and get into an agreement and tell them she had to work and didn't have as much free time as they did. Of course she apologized and they all laughed about it. 

I read thousands of listings just out of curiosity so would have read the entire listing for a place I stayed. Although I may have also been confused about the extent of cleaning required. 

I also see so many listings with cloth furniture. Mine is all set up for any mishaps or spills to just be cleaned up and linens I'm good at getting stains out. 

I also shared a vacation place with my sister for a while and we often had disagreements on cleaning. I would deep clean the place, move all the furniture and chest of toy to shop vac up all dust bunnies that were everywhere behind doors, then she would visit, run the little swifter to make neat little rows in the carpet and ask me to clean up after I stated there, although I wasn't perfect. So wouldn't trust some other host to judge how clean the place was before and after my stay if only guest are cleaning it. 

[Inna22]

@John5097 so true! A host is asking for a lot of unpleasant guests if they are trusting one guest to c lean for the next. I have had guests asking me to clean themselves and waive the cleaning fee. Hard no

[Inna22]

@Huma0 don’t forget that many guests have no idea that you charge per person. If they put their head count in, all they know is their total cost. I can totally see somebody innocently thinking that if they have space in their rental, for example they rented a house that sleeps four and there’s only two of them, they can allow a friend to spend the night. Some might think that even if it’s over the headcount, as long as they bring their own sleeping bag it’s OK. People don’t even think that besides the expenses of the host, there can be even more objective reasons such as insurance and fire safety. These all might be innocent mistakes. I don’t charge per person, it will be constant drama if I chased after each guests head count. I rent my space and there is an amount I want to make on it. If someone wants a really big house and wants to stay there alone, I don’t see why I should be making less money. In terms of resources, it balances out. Some groups are smaller, some groups are bigger. Some groups are huge but are never at the house. Two people can turn all the lights on and take long showers and like their air conditioning set on 65 on hot days. I do ask IDs from absolutely all guests and make it clear in the listing.

[Huma0]

@Inna22 

Yes, I know that guests don't see a breakdown of that and I can see why people would assume if the space is advertised for X number of guests, they can have extra people over without changing the reservation. 

It makes sense for you to list at a fixed cost for a whole unit if that works best for you. I would still be concerned though about having random people coming in and out. As you mentioned, there are other issues to think about than just the nighty rate.

Unlike you though I find it does make a big difference whether there is one person or two staying in one of my rooms. It's not just about the utilities, which are a concern as prices soar, but mostly it's that two people just create more mess than one. Couples also tend to do a lot more cooking. For a complete unit that only gets cleaned at turnover, that might not be a big deal, but as a live in host, I have to ensure that all communal spaces are kept clean and tidy on a daily basis.

The last two couples I hosted completely took over the kitchen (and one also requested the living room as an office space because the two of them didn't want to work in the same room), were very messy and also damaged a few things. They were also more demanding than my single guests. It was so much extra work and there is no way it would have been worth it without the extra person fee. 

In fact, even with the fee, it wasn't worth it so I decided to only take solo travellers going forward and changed the capacity to one person per room. Now that extra person charge is just for when guests have a friend or family member visiting for a few days. It's not really about the costs/compensating me for extra cleaning and laundry (the extra person fee is quite low), but to stop people thinking they can have overnight guests whenever they want or just move someone in during the stay.

At the end of the day, we all do whatever works best for us, but the important thing is to be CLEAR about it so there are no wrong assumptions made.

This is how I have worded it:

"As I host long-term stays, this room is for one person only. If you would like friends/family/a partner to visit for part of the stay this is possible for an additional fee, but please contact me in advance. Only guests named and paid for will be permitted on the premises as otherwise the Airbnb insurance is voided. Please respect that this is my private home and do not bring visitors, including friends and family, without asking permission IN ADVANCE. Visitors may not stay over night."

It seems to work...

[Inna22]

@Huma0 I think that’s very well put

[David8879]

@John5097 I just have shceduled message that is sent out 1 day prior to departure automatically