Reviewing after damage we hope will be rectified by the responsible Guest

[Mary996]

I was in a situation where I now regret NOT reviewing a guest.

I wanted to say something along the lines that " these guests caused damage... at this point in time I am progressing a claim against them. If the matter is settled then I hope to be able to remove this review". Do you see where I'm coming from?

No-one wants to say negative things unjustifiably. They felt I was asking too much compensation. I invited them to make an offer but eventually had no response except for the threat of a £200,000 claim for 'racism'. In my opinion it would have been racist NOT to have claimed for the damage they caused!

I am considering a small claims court action.

Has anyone used this route?

[Helen350]

@Mary996 I'm not sure why you would want to 'update' a bad review.... If guests misbehave, resulting in a bad review, the bad behaviour has still been done, even if they DO agree to pay compensation? So future hosts still need to be warned that these are less than ideal guests...

- I think your scenario of a bad review for damage causing guests, who then come good by paying up is hypothetical.... because a truly good guest will agree to pay damages as soon as the damage has occurred, so you won't have to wait until after the 14 day review period to know if the guests will come good or not....

What do @Anonymous @Helen3 @Sarah977 @Kath9 & the others who commented way back in Feb 2020 think?

[Anonymous]

@Helen350 @Mary996  Guests are not particularly motivated by good reviews in the way that hosts are, so I really doubt that the possibility of updating the review would be some kind of "incentive" to compensate for damages. 

Fundamentally, if it were possible to edit reviews after they've been published, the review process would no longer be double-blind. Anyone who received negative remarks would just re-do their review to retaliate. This is not a proposal that I would support.

[Mary996]

@Anonymous 

Misunderstanding. I'm not proposing that Guests would be entitled to further Review.

[Anonymous]

@Mary996 So what's sauce for the goose isn't sauce for the gander?

Yeah, no. I still wouldn't get on board with this. 

[Mary996]

Oh I understood that from the get go.

Before you go would you mind explaining what you mean by the goose and gander ? Prob diferent strokes for different folks but I do prefer to avoid riddles.

[Mary996]

@Helen350 

I absolutely agree that negative reviews can be warranted.
Yes this is hypothetical and is why I'm here … plus yes a good guest wouldn't put us in such a position I agree and mostly my Guests have been absolutely wonderful. But when someone is in your home its often as if they are a friend. Some people however let their friends get away with murder!! This is why I'm looking for a discussion about dealings when problems arise. We do sometimes have Guests who we feel might be trying to avoid doing the right thing... so i'm interested in looking at strategies that persuade them (or oblige them through our agent - Airbnb) to settle up fully and fairly. There are strategies for this sort of thing … such as asking for the full value of a piece of property that someone has spoiled … to make the point that that might be the ultimate request but that if it can be cleaned instead then would the Guest care to look into the cost involved or themselves book in a cleaner to correspond with their departure? This kind of thing.
Anyway I hope you don't mind if I mention that I was a bit uncomfortable about you calling in others who participated in Feb because I am still in the process of trying to reply to each and every one of them and to thank people for their perspectives and kind input. Not all of it has been kind however and unfortunately more negative comment (appearing deliberately to judge and to cut short the issues) has appeared. I'm still alive (haha!) but would prefer that this didn't spiral out of  control from my perspective as the originator. What does OP mean by the way I was wondering?? I was very grateful for your early interventions in my absence  and you really got it. Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness and skill. I was very grateful indeed because the random fiction of a claim by someone wanting to avoid their responsibility to my place was upsetting and I'm still considering my position in relation to damages caused in communal areas which are excluded from the Guarantee … not sure if other Hosts know this. Honestly I am trying to raise a number of issues simultaneously so it might appear convoluted... maybe one thing at a time would have been better ... I apologise for the complexity!! Please stay on board with me as I would like to continue this (if you would) but there is more to it. Time against me. Hope you might respond further when I get back to you?

Have returned to this and its still here!!

Its really important to me that I make myself understood as I can see that this has been confusing but I really do have some constructive points to make.

The single most valuable point that I'd like to convey is that we need to have confidence that the system can and will be revised for us... so we don't need to keep harping on about how things are now as if they're carved in stone and as if Airbnb ultimately determines all. They really are not the last word. We are!!. Agreed  mentioning legal or damage matters in reviews would be disastrous … what I was trying to raise was that WE can discuss potential provisions between ourselves for the attention of Airbnb to adjust and if a Guest has caused damage look at how we can try to secure a remedy. Within the 14 day period I did not have success with my Guests in securing an offer from them and I had drafted a review briefly stating that they caused damage. Airbnb saw this draft Review in addition to all my replies in depth to the Guest's unfounded allegations in our mutual correspondence and I addressed each and every point that they also raised with Airbnb who I believe quickly saw through these Guests and their true intention to evade any kind of rectification. The suggestion I'm toying with which as the standard of Guest declines, as the numbers increase, relates to the skill needed to get damage-causers to cough up. My Guests were worried about their reputations and to be frank I was worried about smearing it. So much care is needed. By way of update however  allowing the addition of a sentence or two stating that 'this Guest has settled for accidental damage caused' could redeem the situation. Something along those lines???? 

[Helen350]

@Mary996 - Sorry if I offended you by tagging some of the others who originally participated on your post. I did this because the people I tagged usually have good ideas, and I consider them better able to make intelligent comment than me!

This is a public forum, so it's not normally considered inappropriate to ask other members their opinion, especially when they have already commented.

OP means Original Post(er) by the way!

[Mary996]

@Helen350 

Oooh thank you so much. Ok you know these posters. That makes a difference since I value your judgement very highly having heard from you now and finding you so very sympathetic, perceptive, careful and considerate. (Are you a Piscean....!!!??).

Please don't devalue yourself. You make a lot of sense, are tactful and compassionate. One other participant was terse to the point of being rude, I found, but probably as you say his advice is invaluable to others. I would just have preferred to have responded to him in my own time that's all and whilst I do recognise that I invited public comment from other Hosts I wasn't seeking judgements (all coming at once at someone else's initiation... ) that's all. Anyway apology accepted and I too apologise for any upset caused to you because its so very clear to me how very well meaning you are and it has made my day. Thank you for your kind intentions and your place looks lovely up there near the Lake District. Loads of love to you xxx

[Mary996]

@Helen350

"This is a public forum, so it's not normally considered inappropriate to ask other members their opinion, especially when they have already commented"

To summarise I didn't feel it was  your call to summon back prior commentators and in the extreme this could have amounted to bullying I'm thinking, especially as there was quite the insinuation from one commentator and more especially, since these participants had already commented, I would have been in a position to invite them back myself if I felt that their perspectives were going somewhere or were in any way helpful or enlightening. Had they not already commentated and you believed that they could be helpful  then that might have been a good time to tag new commentators in. 

I still didn't feel right after our last exchange. I have thought carefully about my reply because I am beginning to see how, even with such a well intentioned person as yourself,  quite inadvertently, an adverse process could begin. I have felt compelled to convey this to you but am also very concerned not to upset you either.  This is a small thing but also a big thing. For me, as you're probably observing it has to do with self assertion but not at the cost of anyone else's well being. I really believe in Airbnb it was utterly inspired from the beginning. A huge manifestation of positive energy. We need to keep that going and I would like to say again that you need to have confidence in yourself. I perceive a sensitive but powerful soul within your good self. Your input alone was of great help to me so thank you again dear Helen.

[Sarah977]

@Mary996  When we post on a public forum, we don't "own" a thread we started. Anyone is free to comment on it. When @Helen350  tagged in other posters, she was asking for our input on what she had said, it wasn't a matter of her not having the right to do that simply because you started the topic.

And when you post here, you will get all sorts of replies, some of which you may not like, either due to the content or the tone. Just because a poster has a terse style of writing doesn't mean they are attacking someone or have no empathy for their issue. If someone can't handle differing viewpoints or take it personally when others give their unvarnished viewpoint without couching it in feel-good terms, then public forums aren't a good idea to participate in.

If another poster should personally insult you, call you names, etc, that's a different story- that kind of behavior has no place here and should be reported to the moderators.

[Mary996]

I get all of that. Although I find your commentary obvious and patronising.

I just wanted to convey to Helen how the experience felt for me as the recipient of a collective call to others to come in when she herself was the person I was interacting with and was enjoying talking to.

I'm surprised by the change in feel on this site which you don't own either. Its changed that's all I can say and I have posted on here many times in the past and on other social media sites and I really do not need your permission or the attachments of any of your conditions to participate here.

Shall we just politely avoid each other? I'm not going to be forced into accepting your viewpoint or that I would be better off excluding myself because I offered feedback which I felt was warranted.

[Helen350]

Fantastically well put @Sarah977 ! Great analysis of how this forum works!

@Mary996  As I said  before I did not mean to offend!  (And you seemed to pick this up in your earlier comment to me. Thanks for the vote of confidence!)

And I bent over backwards to try & put things sensitively, cos I picked up you might be a sensitive type who could take things the wrong way.... (I'm a bit like that myself!)

- I DON'T think any of the posters on this thread were bullying you at all, (tho' I understand how a sensitive person might think that),  & I think they expressed themselves reasonably, just trying to explain their points of view, - and trying to help in the mess you'd got yourself into!

Mary, you say I 'know' the people I tagged...... Well I don't know them personally, but they post A LOT here, so I've interacted with them online a lot.... I usually agree with what they write, but not always! They frequently agree with what I write, tho' not always!    

I genuinely thought they might shed wisdom on your latest ideas, & because they engaged with you back in February, thought they might want to do so again! And many of us were struggling to understand your train of thought, so I thought several heads would be better than one!

"DISAGREEMENT IS NOT HATRED!" - A little motto of mine! 🙂

[Mary996]

Agreed nec to know the Guest's capacity to settle. It is substantial. I'm undecided about pursuing the difference for a full and final as I have had compo from Airbnb compliant with their capacity as it stands currently.

"Please familiarise yourself with Airbnb review policies".... these are subject to revision on our collective instruction....!! But of course the obstacle might be reaching concensus between ourselves .

I appreciate your suggestions for the wording of a review... I had drafted something but was awaiting the 11th hour as mentioned in another reply in this thread. I got the idea from this forum and thoroughly appreciated it.!!

Thanks again for coming in. I love this forum xx

Oh what if one of the party as Defendants lives abroad? Any experience of litigation in this instance?

[Sarah977]

I'm also rather bamboozled by the "It would have been racist not to charge them"- the only thing I can think of that might mean is that giving them some special waiver, just because they happened to be black, Asian, or whatever, when the host would have charged a white person for damages, is also a sort of racism. But the OP would have to explain what she meant by that. @Mary996 ???

[Mary996]

Yes that is what I meant. That making an excuse for Guests on the grounds of their race is like saying its ok to abuse my place if you're not white. Its not ok for anyone to damage a place. And a person's race does not lower the bar. I claimed from the Guests they refused to settle I had compo from Airbnb. However not to the full extent as access to communal areas (to which I have always invited Guests) is not covered. Did other Hosts know this?