Full refund for the guest AND a bad review possible

[Daniel2500]

After having a year with an almost every time empty flat - although putting in already a very cheap price - I finally got a booking for 28 days while Christmas and new years eve (normally the most popular time for bookings in my location).

Today the guest arrived, i allowed him to check in some hours before check in time and he immediately texted me and airbnb: he is not going to stay there, he claims a full refund for 28 days. There is some drilling or hammering noise from an other flat in the building and the flat is "untidy" -could hardly believe that cause I employ a really tidy and expensive cleaner.

Probably he just didn't like the flat, though pictures and location is exactly as shown on airbnb, and he knows that due to the situation in 2020 he can choose out of dozens or hundred empty and cheap flats.

Airbnb contacted me and offered me: full refund for the guest. Not even the first night or the cleaning fee would stay for me, although he already checked in, so I had efforts and will have costs to send somebody to control and clean again, after he left.

But the worst: even if I agree to a full refund, he will still be able to write a bad review.

After texting dozens of messages and half hour talking with airbnb - no change. The deal would still be, he gets full refund AND a bad review is still possible. Why is airbnb so stubborn? What would you do in my position, being also stubborn and denying the full refund? Especially as he didn't show any documentation for the flat being "untidy"

Finally i agreed to this very bad deal for me. Lots of efforts, flat was blocked on airbnb so nobody else could book it, no income but costs and finally i am depending on his goodwill now not to write a bad review.

With these kind of behaviour, is airbnb still a fair business site fulfilling Germans laws by not being "sittenwidrig"? In my point of view it is trending step by step in the direction of a toggle contract for us hosts - and that is illegal in Germany

[Daniel2500]

"ad it would be ridiculous for a guest to complain about that"

now we are to close to the point. the airbnb system is constructed for markets before 2020. markets with customers on one side and flats on the other. the market is never balanced perfectly, but in a kind of equlibrium.

Since 2020 almost no tourists but hundreds of empty flats. The few customers can end their contracts just with "ridiculous complains" and choose from hundreds other flats for so low prices, that owners are nearly ruined. We are talking her about markets, were it is difficult generate heating and maintain costs

Maybe your market Mexico is very different cause Mexico gained tourists in 2020 by handling Corona well. So you can be happy being the 1% in a wordlwide loosing 99% market

[Sarah977]

Incorrect- Mexico has not handled the virus well at all. Huge infection rate and the highest death rate of any country in the world. But because it is so heavily dependent on tourism, it has allowed tourists to descend from all over, as well as there being a lot of domestic tourism.

So no, I'm not happy about it at all, and my home-share listing has been closed since March because my health is far more important than money, and I don't wish to be among those who are participating in encouraging travel in the midst of a pandemic.

@Daniel2500

[Daniel2500]

"Incorrect- Mexico has not handled the virus well at all"

wrong, this is here no forum to talk about corona policies.

the point was, that Mexico has handled it to avoid damage for all adjected to tourism. Like airbnb hosts.

So at the moment youre on the winning side of the world

"and my home-share listing has been closed since March"

has been closed seems more to be that you closed it yourself. Well, than that is your free choice to do so

"because my health is far more important than money"

if you think your health is connected to rent or dont rent flats. Sounds a bit like a religion or ideology but no scientific evidence. Renting flats normally doesnt affect your health

[J-Renato0]

@Daniel2500  

If you had informed the guest that there would loud noise during day time, and he was aware and agreed with the conditions, you would not have to return the money.

As for the listing that you are staying currently, and that you say that has street noise, the guest are not obliged to refund you if it is stated in the listing.

Even if, it is not stated in the listing and you decided to continue with your stay, you have no right to ask for a refund. Why complaining only after using the property and staying there?

In this case you have the right to write a review an report the issue with street noise.

[Daniel2500]

unfortunately you didnt understand the facts either. "you would not have to return the money."

i didnt HAVE TO return the money. I was asked to grant that. And I granted.

But I was shocked wow unfair this deal is for hosts. No income but costs and efforts, no possibility  to rent it to someone else as long it is blocked in the calendar and for this reason not even visible for outher customers. AND still the threat of a bad review. Toggle contract.

It is like you bought a dinner jacket in a shop for a wedding. You wore it at the wedding. You return it to the shop and claim a full refund. And even if the shop owner grants you that - what probably no shop owner would do in case of a dinner jacket - the shop is still threatened to get his image ruined.

In our German social market system such laws would be illegal.

[Stephanie365]

So, you CHOSE to refund the money and now you're complaining about how unfair it is?

If I had been in your situation, I would have required the guest to provide proof of his claims before any consideration for a refund. Detailed photos. A video with sound on to demonstrate the noise. 

As I take detailed photos with dates and times on them, any guest who tries to say my place is dirty would be facing a serious uphill battle with me. I document everything and I would require documentation from everyone. And I disclose that I live 6 miles from a military base where they blow things up.

You did not do your due diligence before granting a refund. You did not disclose your neighbors' remodeling project and noise as a result. That's on you, @Daniel2500 The only legitimate complaint you have is with yourself. 

[Daniel2500]

"So, you CHOSE to refund the money and now you're complaining about how unfair it is?"

another one dont understanding the point. Yes, i granted the refund. Not knowing that i will be still threatened by a bad review. But the point was: why should i have done that? How does this deal make sense for any host?

" I would have required the guest to provide proof of his claims before any consideration for a refund"

well, thats the point. On airbnb youre often caught between 2 stools. The client wrote he provided proof to airbnb.

I asked airbnb to forward that to me. they didnt.

after i granted the full refund, the wrote me there was no documentation for untidyness fo the flat.

although it would be very easy to provide something. Just do the dirt yourself. No one can proof if this dirt was before or after the client entered.

Everything depends on trust, courtesy and good manners.

Airbnb was such a platform but as i see the trend it became more and more like a hotel booking platform with clients abusing the system which is very in favor for them.

Maybe that is ok for anglo-american mentality.

In our continental social market system the state promises to protect small biznesses from toggle contracts. Obviously he is failing with airbnb

and this forum here is just to stir up hosts against each other as you write me "The only legitimate complaint you have is with yourself. "

[J-Renato0]

@Daniel2500 

To answer a negative review, tell the truth. Explain that there was an incident with noise, because there was another flat in the building that was being renovated. Explain that, the noise will not last forever, and soon everything will return to normal. This way the potential guest who read the review and your response will understand the situation.

Remember that, when answering a review, answer it to the future potential guests that will read it. Let the angry aside, speak softly, but in the most honest and firm way.

[Daniel2500]

thanks for this advice which sounds like airbnb customer service or lawyers of them. But you should yourself know quite well, that these answers dont help against bad marks which can ruin your rating so easy. To maintain your 4,8 level with only ONE single star rating you need 19 five star ratings.

I dont know how youre market Rio de Janeiro is going, but in a competitive market like where i am in with hundreds or thousands of empty flats, the star rating is extremely important

[Sarah977]

No one who has responded to you here thinks that Airbnb is fair to hosts. Quite the contrary. What you are taking to mean that others are defending Airbnb is a false interpretation- we know how nefariously they operate, how guest-centric they are, and realize that if we want to continue to list with the platform, that we have to find work-arounds and handle things ourselves as best we can. That means doing adequate vetting of guests, knowing that offering refunds and kowtowing to guest demands won't help to avoid a bad review, making sure to mention any possible negatives about our places in the listing info, etc, etc. And it doesn't always work. Bad apples do slip through.

It's fine to come here and vent, but attacking other posters who are just trying to give you practical suggestions and info, and who are subject to exactly the same frustrating Airbnb policies as you are, doesn't make much sense.

@Daniel2500

[Daniel2500]

"if we want to continue to list with the platform"

well, thats exactly the point. on my market airbnb is actually already a monopolist and no one can choose anymore, if he wants to continue to list with the platform.

We in continental Europe dont have the anglo-american system of capitalism but a system of social market, where the state should protect small biznes owners from huge monopolists and their unfair rules.

but obviously the state is failing with that and ignores the toggle contracts.

"knowing that offering refunds and kowtowing to guest demands won't help to avoid a bad review"

true, but in this point i dont understand airbnb. Why should i grant a refund, i dont have to give, but i am still threatened by the bad review? Definitely a bad deal and i guess lots of host stay stubborn and dont refund in these cases. At the end it is a loose-loose situation for everone

didnt want to offend anyone here, but wanted to discuss this point and ask, how others handle these situations

[Inna22]

@Daniel2500 I do find the guests are more picky than every, I am with you on that one. 28 days is a fairly long term reservation and in the winter time topped by Coronavirus I would expect the guest to be home a lot and therefor a warning about drilling and hammering would be nice. Perhaps the guest would have even been fine staying if he were prepared for it. I did have construction across the street from my house last summer and got a handful of less than ideal reviews mentioning it. This was across the street though, downtown Chicago where there is always some kind of construction and during pre-Covid times when guests usually booked my place for 3 night average and only came home to sleep and shower and there was no noise at night.

[Daniel2500]

"I would expect the guest to be home a lot"

true true for USA probably.

to Ukraine are coming mostly people you are happy to have less rules than anywhere else, dont fear a flue and want to be outside

but the story ended fine: the client got his full refund and did no bad review

he wrote me honestly, that it was not really due to a noise but he had some other issues and found out he could book others better and even cheaper.

the whole market for stays is since march so down that even 5 star hotels offer monthly stays for prices, which have been before 2020 for a weekend only

[Vivian860]

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